4 ms·

One thing which is needed too is spinning load, the grid depends on having enough inertia to maintain the frequency. Flywheels I assume would do that.

by iso1631 11mo ago

bryanlarsen 11mo ago
Inverters and batteries (or any other DC source) are also very good at doing this.
- iso1631 11mo ago
  Not grid following inverters, or "any DC source", as we saw in Spain in Summer
  - jamescrowley 11mo ago
    Nothing to do with the blackout in Spain - https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/what-caused-iberian-power-outage-what-happens-next-2025-06-18/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/what-caused-iberian-... - voltage surge and various thermal power generators failing to provide the voltage correction services they were being paid for But yes, grid following alone does not provided the required stability - synthetic inertia etc needed
    - namibj 11mo ago
      True DC grids avoid this stability issue by not having a phase and allowing power flow to pretty much just self-balance through voltage gradients and clipping of connections/devices to whatever current they can handle. With enough voltage range that wouldn't even need the tricky loops of voltage regulation common in incandescent-targeted legacy AC grids.
  - bryanlarsen 11mo ago
    Yes, if you don't install grid stabilization inverters, they don't supply grid stabilization.
  - icehawk 11mo ago
    From what I saw: In Spain, inverters are not allowed to provide voltage control, and what we saw in Spain, was a voltage spike that caused generators to drop offline, which then caused frequency issues.
    - robocat 11mo ago
      See report and first comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44358668 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44358668 It looked to me that regulators wanted to make solar the scapegoat for political reasons. The report indicates to me that different operators were using a random monkey theory to make changes until the grid stabilised (they clearly didn't have a handle on the root cause of the instabilities). The regulator screwed up: they are supposed to engineer the network so it can be stable (even in the face of political pressure).
iSnow 11mo ago
This is being done and it's called synthetic inertia. Just with capacitors and batteries instead of spinning motors.
- adrianN 11mo ago
  To my knowledge Siemens is currently making a lot of money by adding spinning inertia to the grid because that is easier than getting the response time/power out of electronics.
  - iSnow 11mo ago
    I am not in that field, just a curious citizen, but Siemens seems to offer synthetic inertia gear too: https://www.siemens-energy.com/global/en/home/products-services/product/battery-energy-storage.html https://www.siemens-energy.com/global/en/home/products-servi...
_whiteCaps_ 11mo ago
Caterpillar provides some really neat small scale flywheel UPS - used in places like hospitals where it would be very bad to lose power. They last long enough for the diesel gennies to start up.
- senectus1 11mo ago
  I've worked on mine sites that use this as well.
- kaonwarb 11mo ago
  I saw these in the basement of a data center about 11-12 years ago. Most steampunk thing I've seen in real life.
  - cycomanic 11mo ago
    Here's a bigger one at ASDEX (a fusion experiment): https://www.ipp.mpg.de/4244138/generatoren https://www.ipp.mpg.de/4244138/generatoren
defrost 11mo ago
Ignore the clickbait headline here: Australia’s Solar Boom Is Breaking the Grid - Or Is It? It's a sub 15 minute actual grid engineering for lay public explainer video (I know, I'm not a video fan either) A better duller title might be: How Australia's Grid is being adapted to Solar Boom 00:00 Introduction 01:23 The Problem with Too Much Solar 03:29 Batteries Change the Economics 05:40 What the Grid Actually Needs 07:04 A Cautionary Tale – The 2025 Iberian Blackout 08:21 Australia’s Secret Weapon – Experience with Weak Grids 10:08 The Genius Technical Fix – Grid-Forming Inverters 12:25 The Perfect Partner - Batteries 12:58 From Mechanical to Software-Defined Stability 13:42 Conclusion – Fixing the Grid Before It Breaks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qavFbOpt4jA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qavFbOpt4jA

One thing which is needed too is spinning load, the grid depends on having enough inertia to maintain the frequency. Flywheels I assume would do that.

by iso1631 11mo ago

One thing which is needed too is spinning load, the grid depends on having enough inertia to maintain the frequency. Flywheels I assume would do that.

bryanlarsen 11mo ago

Inverters and batteries (or any other DC source) are also very good at doing this.

iso1631 11mo ago
Not grid following inverters, or "any DC source", as we saw in Spain in Summer
- jamescrowley 11mo ago
  Nothing to do with the blackout in Spain - https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/what-caused-iberian-power-outage-what-happens-next-2025-06-18/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/what-caused-iberian-... - voltage surge and various thermal power generators failing to provide the voltage correction services they were being paid for But yes, grid following alone does not provided the required stability - synthetic inertia etc needed
  - namibj 11mo ago
    True DC grids avoid this stability issue by not having a phase and allowing power flow to pretty much just self-balance through voltage gradients and clipping of connections/devices to whatever current they can handle. With enough voltage range that wouldn't even need the tricky loops of voltage regulation common in incandescent-targeted legacy AC grids.
- bryanlarsen 11mo ago
  Yes, if you don't install grid stabilization inverters, they don't supply grid stabilization.
- icehawk 11mo ago
  From what I saw: In Spain, inverters are not allowed to provide voltage control, and what we saw in Spain, was a voltage spike that caused generators to drop offline, which then caused frequency issues.
  - robocat 11mo ago
    See report and first comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44358668 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44358668 It looked to me that regulators wanted to make solar the scapegoat for political reasons. The report indicates to me that different operators were using a random monkey theory to make changes until the grid stabilised (they clearly didn't have a handle on the root cause of the instabilities). The regulator screwed up: they are supposed to engineer the network so it can be stable (even in the face of political pressure).

iSnow 11mo ago

This is being done and it's called synthetic inertia. Just with capacitors and batteries instead of spinning motors.

adrianN 11mo ago
To my knowledge Siemens is currently making a lot of money by adding spinning inertia to the grid because that is easier than getting the response time/power out of electronics.
- iSnow 11mo ago
  I am not in that field, just a curious citizen, but Siemens seems to offer synthetic inertia gear too: https://www.siemens-energy.com/global/en/home/products-services/product/battery-energy-storage.html https://www.siemens-energy.com/global/en/home/products-servi...

_whiteCaps_ 11mo ago

Caterpillar provides some really neat small scale flywheel UPS - used in places like hospitals where it would be very bad to lose power. They last long enough for the diesel gennies to start up.

senectus1 11mo ago
I've worked on mine sites that use this as well.
kaonwarb 11mo ago
I saw these in the basement of a data center about 11-12 years ago. Most steampunk thing I've seen in real life.
- cycomanic 11mo ago
  Here's a bigger one at ASDEX (a fusion experiment): https://www.ipp.mpg.de/4244138/generatoren https://www.ipp.mpg.de/4244138/generatoren

defrost 11mo ago

Ignore the clickbait headline here: Australia’s Solar Boom Is Breaking the Grid - Or Is It? It's a sub 15 minute actual grid engineering for lay public explainer video (I know, I'm not a video fan either) A better duller title might be: How Australia's Grid is being adapted to Solar Boom 00:00 Introduction 01:23 The Problem with Too Much Solar 03:29 Batteries Change the Economics 05:40 What the Grid Actually Needs 07:04 A Cautionary Tale – The 2025 Iberian Blackout 08:21 Australia’s Secret Weapon – Experience with Weak Grids 10:08 The Genius Technical Fix – Grid-Forming Inverters 12:25 The Perfect Partner - Batteries 12:58 From Mechanical to Software-Defined Stability 13:42 Conclusion – Fixing the Grid Before It Breaks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qavFbOpt4jA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qavFbOpt4jA