5 ms·

So the real problem is fly tipping, I was trying to understand where is all this waste coming from. That's an enormous amount of trash to just be floating there

So the real problem is fly tipping, I was trying to understand where is all this waste coming from. That's an enormous amount of trash to just be floating there. I've never considered myself that much of an environmentalist, but this is ridiculous and the solution may be significant fines and jail time. And before there's any talk of unfair waste disposable taxes or costs, it cost money to run a landfill. Maybe it's expensive to the most person, but simply dumping on the side of the road is not an excuse nor solution. This is no different than the massive piles of clothing in the desert of Chile, the rivers of Southeast Asia that have more trash than water, or any other place. We can burn it, bury it, recycle it, but if we don't do something it's going to eventually overwhelm and sicken everyone.

lazide 11mo ago
It’s an enforcement and public cleanup issue everywhere, but some are worse than others. Anytime the cost is > $0 (and it always is! Even if the actual cost at the dump is $0, transport takes time and money), there is an incentive to be lazy and just dump stuff wherever. It’s not uncommon in rural areas that someone even has a dump ‘hole’ on their property in many places, due to the time and cost of making a trip to the actual dump. Fines often help (digging through trash to find out whose stuff it is has real benefits if you can turn around and fine someone for it!), as does social pressure. It never completely stops happening though, which is why public cleanups also are important sometimes (see broken window theory, which isn’t completely wrong!).
potato3732842 11mo ago
I live in a poor shithole (by HN standards, I think it's fine) of a city and we don't have litter or dumping problems. You know why? Because if it fits in the bin the truck takes it. And every address gets one bin paid for via property taxes. It literally costs nothing at the point of use to "do the right thing" You only get problems like this when a bunch of habitually compliant "let them eat cake" people either intentionally craft policy or through ignorance let nefarious interests dig their claws in and rent seek and just assume that people will bend over and take it rather than throwing their old tires in the river.
- Simulacra 11mo ago
  I would never assume that you live in a "poor shit hole" of a country, I don't think any country is a "shit hole" and respectfully, no country should be called that. But I do think some societies dismiss waste as a fact of life because of poverty and corruption. Maybe it is a "societal" problem, or a "cultural" problem, but I think it's a lot more complex than that.

lazide 11mo ago

It’s an enforcement and public cleanup issue everywhere, but some are worse than others. Anytime the cost is > $0 (and it always is! Even if the actual cost at the dump is $0, transport takes time and money), there is an incentive to be lazy and just dump stuff wherever. It’s not uncommon in rural areas that someone even has a dump ‘hole’ on their property in many places, due to the time and cost of making a trip to the actual dump. Fines often help (digging through trash to find out whose stuff it is has real benefits if you can turn around and fine someone for it!), as does social pressure. It never completely stops happening though, which is why public cleanups also are important sometimes (see broken window theory, which isn’t completely wrong!).

potato3732842 11mo ago

I live in a poor shithole (by HN standards, I think it's fine) of a city and we don't have litter or dumping problems. You know why? Because if it fits in the bin the truck takes it. And every address gets one bin paid for via property taxes. It literally costs nothing at the point of use to "do the right thing" You only get problems like this when a bunch of habitually compliant "let them eat cake" people either intentionally craft policy or through ignorance let nefarious interests dig their claws in and rent seek and just assume that people will bend over and take it rather than throwing their old tires in the river.

Simulacra 11mo ago
I would never assume that you live in a "poor shit hole" of a country, I don't think any country is a "shit hole" and respectfully, no country should be called that. But I do think some societies dismiss waste as a fact of life because of poverty and corruption. Maybe it is a "societal" problem, or a "cultural" problem, but I think it's a lot more complex than that.