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3D printing: The PC all over again?
- JumpCrisscross 14y agoAre there any 3D printers that can print, amongst other substrates, conductive layers? It would open up a whole world of 3D chip design to amateurs.
- sliverstorm 14y agoAs a hobbyist, your bigger problem is going to be accuracy, not capability. Unless someone comes up with some cool tricks (like the self-aligning gates in photolithography), you are going to need some fancy hardware to achieve chip-like printing resolutions. Edit: apparently, photolithography has been applied to 3d printing. If the photolithography equipment is not expensive, this may be less of an issue.
- Tuna-Fish 14y agoIn a word: Yes. http://hackaday.com/2012/05/22/3d-printed-circuit-boards-using-conductive-ink/ http://hackaday.com/2012/05/22/3d-printed-circuit-boards-usi...
- iamwil 14y agoYes. The reprappers are making strides in this direction. There's also conductive ABS plastic. http://www.repraper.com/goods.php?id=172 http://www.repraper.com/goods.php?id=172 http://blog.reprap.org/search/label/Printing%20Conductors http://blog.reprap.org/search/label/Printing%20Conductors http://blog.reprap.org/2012/04/some-more-printed-circuitry.html http://blog.reprap.org/2012/04/some-more-printed-circuitry.h... However, you're thinking too far ahead. The current home printers don't have the resolution to print circuits on the scale of a chip. You could probably do it, but the chip would be basic, and quite big and slow.
- potatolicious 14y agoI'm quite willing to settle for just printing PCBs at home. There are low-volume PCB printing services but they are still quite expensive, not to mention slow to turn around. There is a strong space here for a 3D printer to come in.
- pvidler 14y agoMilling seems like a better bet (than printing) for home PCBs without the etching. It's cheaper and more accurate, like this one: http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/catalog/imodela-milling-machine-p-1011.html http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/catalog/imodela-milling-mach... Downside is that there's no solder resist, so SMT parts would be tricky/impossible to solder. Also the above model only handles tiny boards — something that can do a standard 160x100 mm eurocard would be nice.
- dccoolgai 14y agoIt's so tempting to say this is just sensationalist hyperbole...but go watch the beginning of "Pirates of Silicon Valley"...the parallels are uncanny.
- ChuckMcM 14y agoWhat I find amusing is that 'robotics' have been "the PC all over again" for a couple of decades at least now :-) So I don't like the hyperbole, gives folks too much ammo if it doesn't develop quickly. That said though, the same people who were building computers from kits are doing 3D printers, its fun to watch.
- iamwil 14y agoWell, you have to be skeptical for the right reasons. It is true there's both lots of hype and cynicism. 3D printing parallels computers in many ways, but it's important to see how it is different as well. Unlike computers, I currently can't see anything resembling Moore's law. In addition, it may have some version of the "Singer Problem". When sewing machines came out, you could have claimed that everyone would make their own clothes. But we don't. Why don't we? Or when camcorders first came out in the early 80's, some people were enthused about being able to record their own shows, and talked about how it was going to disrupt traditional media. However, the missing piece they failed to take into account was that there was no method of distribution. It wasn't until Youtube came along that this vision came to be. That said, I'm enthused about its possibilities. I've got a printer at home, and I've been exploring what it's good for, and so far, I'm optimistic.
- thenomad 14y agoWhen sewing machines came out, you could have claimed that everyone would make their own clothes. But we don't. Why don't we? Because making your own clothes still takes bloody ages and a lot of expertise. I've attempted to learn both 3D modeling and clothesmaking in the past, and IMO, 3D modeling was easier. And even a skilled amateur tailor takes a couple of days to make a dress or a suit-equivalent. If 3D printing only makes Making as easy as tailoring, it's not going to get very far very fast. If it makes it as easy as assembling IKEA furniture, though, we're off to the races.
- brianbreslin 14y agoquestion/poll: at what price point will you buy a 3d printer for your home?
- luke_s 14y agoThe price I am prepared to pay can be significantly altered by the avaliability of models to print. At the moment I would pay about $250. I've checked through http://www.thingiverse.com/ http://www.thingiverse.com/ and have seen a few trinklets that would be fun to print out. My son would probably get a kick out of it. But without content I wouldn't consider spending much money. However, if the right content was avaliable, I would be willing to spend up to $2500 on a 3d printer. What is 'the right content'? At the moment, I don't know! 3D printing needs a 'Killer app'. I'm waiting for the 3D printing equivalent of VisiCalc...
- iamwil 14y agoWell, I know a killer app would be if it printed circuits. That's the obvious one, but it's a long ways off. I don't know if there's something before that that's a killer app. There may be.
- prezjordan 14y ago$400 with the precision of the MakerBot Replicator 2 (EDIT: 100 micron)
- simcop2387 14y agoReplicator 2 is actually at 100 micron not 10. None of the FDM printers can get 10 micron that I'm aware of. The printrbot that I got for $500 I've been able to get to do 200 micron pretty easily (in fact it prints best at 200 micron). Though the printrbot has needed a bit more fiddling than I believe the makerbot systems need, it's certainly heading towards your direction.
- prezjordan 14y agoHopefully soon! I would also love if they were fast (like <1 min for an iPhone case fast). I wonder if the future will be extrusion or the photo-sensitive liquids that some printers are using.
- sami36 14y agoHas anyone seen this ? it claims to print at 25 microns res & its founders have an impressive pedigree. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/formlabs/form-1-an-affordable-professional-3d-printer?ref=live http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/formlabs/form-1-an-affor... I have no connection whatsoever to the project besides being a 3D printing enthusiast.
- mcantelon 14y agoMaterials for stereolithic 3D printers, like Formlab's, cost 4 times, from what I've heard, as much as conventional 3D printers.
- voodoomagicman 14y agoThis printer uses photolithography vs FDM used by reprap and makerbot - it works by using a laser to solidify photopolymer. These printers are capable of very high resoltion, but the downside is that their substrate can cost hundreds of dollars / liter.
- toomuchtodo 14y agoCurrent cost for the Form 1 substrate is ~$150/liter.
- wtallis 14y agoAnd a quick check shows ABS filament at about $40/L.
- mahyarm 14y agoAnd 4 pounds of small ABS pellets from ebay is $15.
- toomuchtodo 14y agoYou're paying for higher resolution.
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- hospadam 14y agoHonest question: what can average people use 3d printers for realistically? Every time I read more - I want one. But then I try and figure out what kind of thing I'd print. Besides custom chess pieces and my own Legos - am I missing anything? Or are they just for engineers, "builders", and architects. I know they're expensive now - but lets assume they come down to ~$500 (price point where tablets took off).
- sliverstorm 14y agoAll the discussion, press, headlines- they are almost all predicated on the improvement of 3d printers to the degree of being able to print a quality replica of anything you can think of.
- epaik 14y agoI think the greatest use case isn't printing stand-alone objects, but rather replacement parts for existing products. Say, your laptop screen hinge breaks. Instead of ordering a new one from the manufacturer, you could print your own replacement at home.
- TylerE 14y agoThe problem with that is that the current tech can't print anything with material that has any sort of reasonable mechanical properties - the stuff is quite fragile.
- epaik 14y agoThat's very true. But for smaller parts or cosmetic parts 3D printers can already be used to print replacements, as evidenced in a recent HN post[1]. [1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4589528 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4589528
- iamwil 14y agoThat won't be the case until 3D modeling tools get much easier to use. Current 3D modeling tools are either expensive, or hard to use. In addition, most average people aren't versed in thinking about objects in 3D in their minds. There are software like Matterport, where you can scan things, but until you can scan the broken parts, and "glue" it together in software easily, this won't happen. It's like saying the greatest use case for computers is that you can program your own accounting program to do your own taxes. No. I went to the computer history museum, and they had a model of "easy to use" computer for moms in the kitchen. What was on the controls? Loading and unloading registers. They were completely off the mark on that one. Chances are, it'll enable makers to offer services that have a real world component that other people can order easily, and enable new kinds of behavior.
- 31reasons 14y agoI want one food printer.
- Mordor 14y agoYeah, one which can print gummy bears :)
- Bjorkbat 14y agoSo, they're saying that the 3D printer is like the PC in that it's one big piracy box? I'm disappointed, but I guess all the speculation about how the 3D printer will change our lives for the better has been covered by now.
- stevewilhelm 14y agoI'll buy a 3D printer when I can print all the pieces to build a Nerf N-Strike Elite Hail Fire http://s831.us/hail-fire http://s831.us/hail-fire for under forty dollars worth of materials and it can be printed and assembled in under three hours. I picked this item because it was featured in the Wired magazine article right after their "3D printers are the next PC" article.
- bluedanieru 14y agoI'm similar, except replace 'Nerf N-Strike Elite Hail Fire' with '3D printer' (and I'm a bit more flexible on raw materials cost).
- angersock 14y agoPersonally, I think that the 3D printer fad is going to sideline itself before it ever reaches court in any significant way. Why, you ask? Because people are lazy. I see farmers using these, I see clever immigrants and poor nations, sure. But mainstream middle America? Probably not. How many people have a home lathe, mill, or drill press? Hell, how many even have basic power tools (circular saw, hand drill, jigsaw, and so on)? How many people write code for the machines they own? The computer (despite how we may treat it even today) is hardly new technology, nor two decades later is the Internet. I'm sorry to be such a downer, but I think that the vast consumerist masses will probably not ride a fleet of these gizmos into a post-scarcity future. :(
- milesskorpen 14y agoA 3D printer is potentially a hell of a lot easier to use than a home lathe, mill or drill press — you download a design, and hit print. Next thing you know, you've printed out all the pieces of a chair for your living room, which you assemble using the pegs and screw you also printed out (think Ikea). This isn't too far-fetched.
- kumarm 14y agoI have a different view on this. Future manufacturing is 90% 3D Printing. But its not about printing at your house. You get your orders printed at local mall and shops that has the right equipment (Only raw materials transported).
- angersock 14y agoThis makes a great deal of sense to me--I imagine on-demand manufacturing working very well, outside of the home, for the reasons that I think it won't be popular inside the home: somebody else does the work.
- icelancer 14y agoThis will definitely be the first major breakthrough; we see it already at local hackerspaces who do design-for-pay. It will only get more popular and cheaper as processes improve.
- teflonhook 14y agoWell for one thing, it's certainly going to fuck Lego over.
- danboarder 14y ago3D printers will get fast. We don't think twice about printing on paper now; in the future you'll print out a recyclable mug for your morning coffee. Why have cabinets full of dishes when you can print a custom color set for tonights dinner? Wash and recycle, no storage needed.
- thenomad 14y agoMugs? Ooh, now, this is interesting. 2 questions: 1) Can an affordable 3D printer actually print a mug that's safe to drink out of? (Doesn't leech nasty chemicals into your coffee, doesn't melt and dump boiling tea on your genital area?) 2) Are there any 3D printers that can also paint the surface of what they print yet?
- adamfeldman 14y agoWhat about the energy costs?
- rsaarelm 14y agoI can't think of regular uses I'd have for present-day 3D printers, but I do appreciate the "1970s affordable microcomputer" comparison. I'd have a hard time thinking of an use for an Altair 8800 too. Printing clothes would be one killer app for me (everyone needs them, they wear out, the design variety space is huge), but I don't see how you'd go from the current tech into something that can do clothes.
- mtgx 14y agoI don't see why it should be that hard. There are already those machines that make the material. You just need to make one that can take a virtual model from the PC and "build it".
- rsaarelm 14y agoThe "building it" for clothes currently involves cutting and sewing the material. I don't see how that would be very easy to do with a machine with anywhere close to as few degrees of freedom as a 3D printer. I suppose you could try to make the thing extrude the cloth already weaved in a closed loop, like doing a sock by extruding concentric woven circles and tapering them off to the tip. Then if you could split the circle into two or three you could try to do shirts and pants.
- iamwil 14y agoThere's been a little headway in this regard. Here's a 3D printed bikini. http://news.globalintimatewear.com/Mechanisms/7037/Shapeways_Launches_the_First_3D_printed_Bikini.html http://news.globalintimatewear.com/Mechanisms/7037/Shapeways...