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I've also noticed comments modded down to <1 for no good reason. I like the idea that here, generally downmods to <1 are reserved for abusive or off topic comme

by axod 18y ago

I've also noticed comments modded down to <1 for no good reason. I like the idea that here, generally downmods to <1 are reserved for abusive or off topic comments, rather than just something you disagree with. To the new users: If you disagree with a comment, please reply to it, stating why. Don't just blindly downmod it. Just my 2c

russell 18y ago
I have noticed a piling on of downmods in the past couple of weeks. TooMuchNick seems to have lost 30+ points for a couple of comments. They didn't add much to the conversation but they weren't so offensive that he deserved that. He got the point. Probably -1 would have accomplished it. HN is the most civil site that I have seen. All it takes is a gentle tap to remind a commenter the s/he didn't contribute to the discussion.
- kragen 18y ago
  Sure, but he's from Valleywag (he launched the site and eventually got fired for being too gossipy even for Gawker and Valleywag), and he's starting a site to encourage people to keep a visual online diary of their sex lives. He'd have to post thousands of fantastic comments here in order to compensate for the damage to civility he's done in his life so far. (I know this is kind of harsh, but if you think I wouldn't say it in person, you probably haven't met me.)
mcargian 18y ago
On the flip side, I don't understand why someone should get 40 karma points for a two word witty comment, no matter how funny it was. Why isn't karma per comment limited to -1 to 10? Seems like it would limit karma bashing and karma mega-boosting.
- kwamenum86 18y ago
  If you limit the karma to 10 then a particularly good comment will eventually sink below comments that are upmodded later because of the way the ordering algorithm works. Similarly, a particularly bad comment will stay visible. I don't see anything wrong with karma mega-boosting. At the end of the day it is just a number on your profile.
  - sam_in_nyc 18y ago
    I think he meant only credit the user with 10 karma points. The comment can still be boosted based on the number of up-mods it receives.
    - kwamenum86 18y ago
      Wouldn't we then be saying that no comment is worth more than 10 points under any circumstances? I am not sure that is the proper behavior either. In this scenario a well thought out 3 paragraph critique would be limited to the same number of points as a two word quip.
      - mcargian 18y ago
        Possibly. But right now many two word quips get more points than longer, well though out, responses. If karma really has no value (over the few point levels currently defined) I guess it doesn't matter. But I always assumed that in the future karma points would be used for additional features. Perhaps the upper limit shouldn't be 10, but the total number of words in the post. So a two word quip, only gets you two points. ;)
      - radu_floricica 18y ago
        Well the obvious next step is a logarithmic scale for comment values.
        khafra 18y ago
        I'd prefer weighting the karma by comment length until it reaches at least three lines, combined with a markov chain that recognizes vocabulary like that in the linked article and common among insightful posts.
        radu_floricica 18y ago
        If you go this way you challenge people to beat it. Keep It Simple is the best. This being said, the "unique post" robot proved to be a success in several implementations.
- cdr 18y ago
  Like say, Slashdot?
- wensing 18y ago
  I have a related suggestion: show someone's median karma per comment and karma per post in his/her profile. This would shed light on someone's real contribution level: e.g. someone puts up a TC article and gets 128 pts in one day vs. someone makes 64 moderately insightful, 2 pt comments. StackOverflow awards medals to bring out distinctions. I don't think we have to go that far, but it's a similar idea.
- sh1mmer 18y ago
  I think it's entirely valid to not add karma to a comment you agree because it's reached the karma you feel it deserves. Similarly as people have pointed out you don't need pile on the down-modding simply because you don't agree with something. I would almost say that unless something is actually disinformation, spam or trolling you shouldn't down-mod it, even if you disagree. Upvote the comments you agree with or write a persuasive argument instead. One thing that I like about Stackoverflow.com is the ability to see how much people down/up mod.
nandemo 18y ago
As far as I know, new users can't downmod.
- axod 18y ago
  True, but I think it's a lot easier to get to the karma level where you can downmod now. Unless the limits have been raised.
  - swombat 18y ago
    Perhaps that's the solution then: raise the limits for downmodding. Everyone on the leaderboard is now above 2000. Given the long-tail nature of such distributions, that means there's probably 1-2 thousand active users above 500 - more than enough to downmod spam/trolls. I'd set the flag/downmod limit to 500.

by axod 18y ago

russell 18y ago

I have noticed a piling on of downmods in the past couple of weeks. TooMuchNick seems to have lost 30+ points for a couple of comments. They didn't add much to the conversation but they weren't so offensive that he deserved that. He got the point. Probably -1 would have accomplished it. HN is the most civil site that I have seen. All it takes is a gentle tap to remind a commenter the s/he didn't contribute to the discussion.

kragen 18y ago
Sure, but he's from Valleywag (he launched the site and eventually got fired for being too gossipy even for Gawker and Valleywag), and he's starting a site to encourage people to keep a visual online diary of their sex lives. He'd have to post thousands of fantastic comments here in order to compensate for the damage to civility he's done in his life so far. (I know this is kind of harsh, but if you think I wouldn't say it in person, you probably haven't met me.)

mcargian 18y ago

On the flip side, I don't understand why someone should get 40 karma points for a two word witty comment, no matter how funny it was. Why isn't karma per comment limited to -1 to 10? Seems like it would limit karma bashing and karma mega-boosting.

kwamenum86 18y ago
If you limit the karma to 10 then a particularly good comment will eventually sink below comments that are upmodded later because of the way the ordering algorithm works. Similarly, a particularly bad comment will stay visible. I don't see anything wrong with karma mega-boosting. At the end of the day it is just a number on your profile.
- sam_in_nyc 18y ago
  I think he meant only credit the user with 10 karma points. The comment can still be boosted based on the number of up-mods it receives.
  - kwamenum86 18y ago
    Wouldn't we then be saying that no comment is worth more than 10 points under any circumstances? I am not sure that is the proper behavior either. In this scenario a well thought out 3 paragraph critique would be limited to the same number of points as a two word quip.
    - mcargian 18y ago
      Possibly. But right now many two word quips get more points than longer, well though out, responses. If karma really has no value (over the few point levels currently defined) I guess it doesn't matter. But I always assumed that in the future karma points would be used for additional features. Perhaps the upper limit shouldn't be 10, but the total number of words in the post. So a two word quip, only gets you two points. ;)
    - radu_floricica 18y ago
      Well the obvious next step is a logarithmic scale for comment values.
      - khafra 18y ago
        I'd prefer weighting the karma by comment length until it reaches at least three lines, combined with a markov chain that recognizes vocabulary like that in the linked article and common among insightful posts.
        radu_floricica 18y ago
        If you go this way you challenge people to beat it. Keep It Simple is the best. This being said, the "unique post" robot proved to be a success in several implementations.
cdr 18y ago
Like say, Slashdot?
wensing 18y ago
I have a related suggestion: show someone's median karma per comment and karma per post in his/her profile. This would shed light on someone's real contribution level: e.g. someone puts up a TC article and gets 128 pts in one day vs. someone makes 64 moderately insightful, 2 pt comments. StackOverflow awards medals to bring out distinctions. I don't think we have to go that far, but it's a similar idea.
sh1mmer 18y ago
I think it's entirely valid to not add karma to a comment you agree because it's reached the karma you feel it deserves. Similarly as people have pointed out you don't need pile on the down-modding simply because you don't agree with something. I would almost say that unless something is actually disinformation, spam or trolling you shouldn't down-mod it, even if you disagree. Upvote the comments you agree with or write a persuasive argument instead. One thing that I like about Stackoverflow.com is the ability to see how much people down/up mod.

nandemo 18y ago

As far as I know, new users can't downmod.

axod 18y ago
True, but I think it's a lot easier to get to the karma level where you can downmod now. Unless the limits have been raised.
- swombat 18y ago
  Perhaps that's the solution then: raise the limits for downmodding. Everyone on the leaderboard is now above 2000. Given the long-tail nature of such distributions, that means there's probably 1-2 thousand active users above 500 - more than enough to downmod spam/trolls. I'd set the flag/downmod limit to 500.