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It's not necessarily going through a Russian or Singaporean node though, on the sites I'm responsible for, AWS, GCP, Azure are in the top 5 for attackers. It's

It's not necessarily going through a Russian or Singaporean node though, on the sites I'm responsible for, AWS, GCP, Azure are in the top 5 for attackers. It's just that they don't care _at all_ about that happening. I don't think you need world-wide law-enforcement, it'll be a big step ahead if you make owners & operators liable. You can limit exposure so nobody gets absolutely ruined, but anyone running wordpress 4.2 and getting their VPS abused for attacks currently has 0 incentive to change anything unless their website goes down. Give them a penalty of a few hundred dollars and suddenly they do. To keep things simple, collect from the hosters, they can then charge their customers, and suddenly they'll be interested in it as well, because they don't want to deal with that. The criminals are not held liable, and neither are their enablers. There's very little chance anything will change that way.

mrweasel 11mo ago
The big cloud provides needs to step up and take responsibility. I understand that it can't be to easy to do, but we really do need a way to contact e.g. AWS and tell them to shut of a costumer. I have no problem with someone scraping our websites, but I care that they don't do so responsibly, slow down when we start responding slower, don't assume that you can just go full throttle, crash our site, wait, and then do it again once we start responding again. You're absolutely right: AWS, GCP, Azure and others, they do not care and especially AWS and GCP are massive enablers.
- ctoth 11mo ago
  > we really do need a way to contact e.g. AWS and tell them to shut of a costumer. You realize you just described the infrastructure for far worse abuse than a misconfigured scraper, right?
  - mrweasel 11mo ago
    I'm very aware of that, yes. There needs to be a good process, the current situation where AWS simply does not care, or doesn't know also isn't particularly good. One solution could be for victims to notify AWS that a number of specified IP are generating an excessive amount of traffic. An operator could then verify with AWS traffic logs, notify the customer that they are causing issue and only after a failure to respond could the customer be shut down. You're not wrong that abuse would be a massive issue, but I'm on the other side of this and need Amazon to do something, anything.

mrweasel 11mo ago

The big cloud provides needs to step up and take responsibility. I understand that it can't be to easy to do, but we really do need a way to contact e.g. AWS and tell them to shut of a costumer. I have no problem with someone scraping our websites, but I care that they don't do so responsibly, slow down when we start responding slower, don't assume that you can just go full throttle, crash our site, wait, and then do it again once we start responding again. You're absolutely right: AWS, GCP, Azure and others, they do not care and especially AWS and GCP are massive enablers.

ctoth 11mo ago
> we really do need a way to contact e.g. AWS and tell them to shut of a costumer. You realize you just described the infrastructure for far worse abuse than a misconfigured scraper, right?
- mrweasel 11mo ago
  I'm very aware of that, yes. There needs to be a good process, the current situation where AWS simply does not care, or doesn't know also isn't particularly good. One solution could be for victims to notify AWS that a number of specified IP are generating an excessive amount of traffic. An operator could then verify with AWS traffic logs, notify the customer that they are causing issue and only after a failure to respond could the customer be shut down. You're not wrong that abuse would be a massive issue, but I'm on the other side of this and need Amazon to do something, anything.