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BMW has done something similar for battery replacement for years. I think at-home coding of batteries is now available, but wasn’t originally. And still requir

BMW has done something similar for battery replacement for years. I think at-home coding of batteries is now available, but wasn’t originally. And still requires an OBD programmer.

sokoloff 1y ago
Requiring an OBD2 programmer seems totally fine to me, just as requiring a 10mm socket and wrench is.
- alistairSH 1y ago
  It’s not a simple OBD scanner. You need BMW software running on a laptop. The software is available online (not sure if it’s a reverse-engineered hack or pirated).
- xnyan 1y ago
  You need specific software that can cost thousands of dollars if obtained legally, but it's not really the bad part. Essentially anything on the CAN bus has to have it's cryptographic signature put on the ECU's whitelist of approved signatures, or it cannot be used. This can only be done with the blessing of BMW, who sells the privilege to 3rd party repair shops. There are some hardware workarounds in some cases like spoofing auth with a 3rd party device permanently attached to the CANBUS, or desoldering and manipulating the chips used by the ECU for storage, but it's a massive hassle.
- xethos 1y ago
  Snap-On is known for nice, warrantied-for-life, but incredibly expensive tools. A 10mm socket is $40, a 10mm wrench is $58. The cheapest OBD-II reader one can use with the Hyundai, per TFA, is ~$800, and Hyundai's required-for-this-job software subscription is $60/week. Needing tools is fine, but the cost is ballooning, and the ladder for starting work at home, and learning, is being pulled up. Sure, one needs tools
spockz 1y ago
This is par for the course on traction batteries. You need official dealer software to dial them in. My VW Passat hybrid did not even let me change the cooling fluid myself because it is also used to cool the battery. In fact anything remotely tied to the high voltage battery is not user serviceable, and dealers are only allowed to replace instead of repair. And this car is from 2015 so the enshittification started there already.
- alistairSH 1y ago
  Our BMW is 100% dinosaur-burning. Just a normal 12V starter battery. Still needs OBD programming to change, even if the type/capacity remains the same.
  - maxerickson 1y ago
    It seems that it tells the charge controller to reset the battery history? I would want to see a bit of data before concluding that it is useless to do that.
    - matthews3 1y ago
      I think for AGM batteries, it uses different charging curves depending on the age/health of the battery.
    - alistairSH 1y ago
      Yes. Apparently ramps charge rates based on battery age. Which is fine and good, but shouldn’t require BMW software to do.
jesprenj 1y ago
If the battery is in the trunk on a BMW automatic, park the car in a garage backwards with the car nearly touching the wall with the trunk. Stop it (parking brake engages). Wait for the battery to break beyond the point of recharging it by letting the car sit still for some months. Congratulations, you've successfully soft locked your car. You can't open the trunk, because you can't move the car forward, because you can't put the car in neutral and release the parking brake, because you have no power.
- PunchyHamster 1y ago
  Or leave it outside in humid weather. With brake on it's not uncommon for them to stick to the brake disk coz of rust + humidity, at best it will be PITA to get it moving again, at worst it will do some damage.
- alistairSH 1y ago
  There’s a jump-start point in the engine bay.
- OptionOfT 1y ago
  You can go under the car and put the transmission in neutral. Also, BMW puts the battery in the trunk for a reason. It's for weight distribution. So I'll le them get away with it.
TheJoeMan 1y ago
I don’t know about other brands, but a BMW tracks the aging of the battery for features such as turning off accessories/lights to ensure you still have 2 or so cranks of energy left. This also seems to make the car stretch out the battery life almost to a fault. In the trunk, the positive terminal isn’t just a terminal, it has a current sensor built in so the car can measure not just voltage like most autos. So the battery “registration” resets this adaptation, just like you’re supposed to reset the adaptation on a UPS when you change the batteries. Needing an OBD tool is slightly annoying, but does not feel like a vendor-locking scenario.

BMW has done something similar for battery replacement for years. I think at-home coding of batteries is now available, but wasn’t originally. And still requires an OBD programmer.

sokoloff 1y ago

Requiring an OBD2 programmer seems totally fine to me, just as requiring a 10mm socket and wrench is.

alistairSH 1y ago
It’s not a simple OBD scanner. You need BMW software running on a laptop. The software is available online (not sure if it’s a reverse-engineered hack or pirated).
xnyan 1y ago
You need specific software that can cost thousands of dollars if obtained legally, but it's not really the bad part. Essentially anything on the CAN bus has to have it's cryptographic signature put on the ECU's whitelist of approved signatures, or it cannot be used. This can only be done with the blessing of BMW, who sells the privilege to 3rd party repair shops. There are some hardware workarounds in some cases like spoofing auth with a 3rd party device permanently attached to the CANBUS, or desoldering and manipulating the chips used by the ECU for storage, but it's a massive hassle.
xethos 1y ago
Snap-On is known for nice, warrantied-for-life, but incredibly expensive tools. A 10mm socket is $40, a 10mm wrench is $58. The cheapest OBD-II reader one can use with the Hyundai, per TFA, is ~$800, and Hyundai's required-for-this-job software subscription is $60/week. Needing tools is fine, but the cost is ballooning, and the ladder for starting work at home, and learning, is being pulled up. Sure, one needs tools

spockz 1y ago

This is par for the course on traction batteries. You need official dealer software to dial them in. My VW Passat hybrid did not even let me change the cooling fluid myself because it is also used to cool the battery. In fact anything remotely tied to the high voltage battery is not user serviceable, and dealers are only allowed to replace instead of repair. And this car is from 2015 so the enshittification started there already.

alistairSH 1y ago
Our BMW is 100% dinosaur-burning. Just a normal 12V starter battery. Still needs OBD programming to change, even if the type/capacity remains the same.
- maxerickson 1y ago
  It seems that it tells the charge controller to reset the battery history? I would want to see a bit of data before concluding that it is useless to do that.
  - matthews3 1y ago
    I think for AGM batteries, it uses different charging curves depending on the age/health of the battery.
  - alistairSH 1y ago
    Yes. Apparently ramps charge rates based on battery age. Which is fine and good, but shouldn’t require BMW software to do.

jesprenj 1y ago

If the battery is in the trunk on a BMW automatic, park the car in a garage backwards with the car nearly touching the wall with the trunk. Stop it (parking brake engages). Wait for the battery to break beyond the point of recharging it by letting the car sit still for some months. Congratulations, you've successfully soft locked your car. You can't open the trunk, because you can't move the car forward, because you can't put the car in neutral and release the parking brake, because you have no power.

PunchyHamster 1y ago
Or leave it outside in humid weather. With brake on it's not uncommon for them to stick to the brake disk coz of rust + humidity, at best it will be PITA to get it moving again, at worst it will do some damage.
alistairSH 1y ago
There’s a jump-start point in the engine bay.
OptionOfT 1y ago
You can go under the car and put the transmission in neutral. Also, BMW puts the battery in the trunk for a reason. It's for weight distribution. So I'll le them get away with it.

TheJoeMan 1y ago

I don’t know about other brands, but a BMW tracks the aging of the battery for features such as turning off accessories/lights to ensure you still have 2 or so cranks of energy left. This also seems to make the car stretch out the battery life almost to a fault. In the trunk, the positive terminal isn’t just a terminal, it has a current sensor built in so the car can measure not just voltage like most autos. So the battery “registration” resets this adaptation, just like you’re supposed to reset the adaptation on a UPS when you change the batteries. Needing an OBD tool is slightly annoying, but does not feel like a vendor-locking scenario.