7 ms·

Steam Machines can become an existencial crisis for PlayStation and Xbox. A “console” that I can use as a PC? I am in 100%. You’ll get the world biggest game l

by mariopt 11mo ago

Steam Machines can become an existencial crisis for PlayStation and Xbox. A “console” that I can use as a PC? I am in 100%. You’ll get the world biggest game library at a discount, this is why I sold my PlayStation after spending 200 euros and watching it becoming useless. I also suspect a lot of game devs will optimize for steam machine and finally we’ll get a console like experience on PC. Don’t let the “low specs” fool you, it has the same specs or better as 70% of steam users. Given Valve gave money to a lot of open source maintainers , it’s also great for Linux. Just take my money

0x073 11mo ago
Then sony produce ps only exclusive s. No pc ports anymore.
- dangus 11mo ago
  I don’t think that’s true. The whole reason they’re producing PC ports is to sell the most profitable part (software) to those who to haven’t been giving them money. Sony makes zero dollars off of the consoles, and while they do enjoy taking their PS Store royalties rather than giving it up to Steam, they also have a huge collection of first party studios that might even be a more important business. And it’s not like Sony is giving their big console releases PC ports on day one, if you want to own them right away you have to buy a PlayStation.
  - firesteelrain 11mo ago
    You are mostly right about the broad strategy but a few of the claims are too absolute. Sony does make money on hardware later in the cycle even if margins are small. They also care about PC ports for more than just pure profit such as extending the IP footprint and keeping franchises visible between major releases. The part about delayed PC ports is completely correct. PlayStation is still the primary window and PC is the secondary revenue phase once the console market is saturated.
  - philistine 11mo ago
    How could you believe that Sony would give up 30% of every Call of Duty, Madden, Fortnite sale for the measly PC sales of Slapper-Man 2 and God of Warm? Every Steam Machine sold that plays Sony's exclusives is a genuine threat to Sony's control over the gaming market. The more I think about it, the more I believe Sony's games coming to PC is over since yesterday's announcement.
- TheRoque 11mo ago
  Not going to happen. In fact, they seem to go the opposite direction because there's more money to be made.
  - 0x073 11mo ago
    I also don't believe it, but sony was a all time bad player. I like the Xbox because they changed so much in the console ecosystem, play anywhere, backwards compatibility without extra cost.
- shantara 11mo ago
  Sony’s current tactics is to publish all their releases on PC 6-12 months later. Doing this expands the potential player base and even makes some players to double dip and buy the game twice
  - philistine 11mo ago
    If this Steam Machine really takes off and starts impacting Sony's ability to sell Playstation consoles, you bet your ass Sony will stop porting games to PC.
- pezezin 11mo ago
  That is only a problem if you suffer from FOMO. Otherwise there are enough PC games for a hundred lifetimes.
TheRoque 11mo ago
Exactly, I sold my Switch because I just happened to play most of my games on PC and steam. Worst case scenario, it can be a desktop computer (I don't have one, only a laptop) Whereas a playstation or a switch, once I don't game anymore, it's just an expensive paperweight
CalRobert 11mo ago
Man, I got a free ps5 from my isp and was excited to have friends over for games. Come to find out that playing games with your friends apparently isn’t a thing anymore (I guess there’s fighting and racing games). What a lame-ass boring system.
- Philip-J-Fry 11mo ago
  Playing games with friends has never been more popular. I guess couch co-op has been replaced with online multiplayer. The assumption being that if you want to play with friends, they'll have their own device. But there's still plenty of couch co-op games. They're usually quite niche though and not your typical racing or shooting game.
  - CalRobert 11mo ago
    We ended up hooking up my old N64 and playing Goldeneye
  - littlestymaar 11mo ago
    > I guess couch co-op has been replaced with online multiplayer. The assumption being that if you want to play with friends, they'll have their own device. What's the point with a console then though?
- christophilus 11mo ago
  It is on the Nintendo Switch. My kids play loads of Mario Party, Minecraft and Mario Cart.
- IggleSniggle 11mo ago
  This is why I've been all in on Steam for so long! The catalog is so huge, there's a massive number of fantastic couch multiplayer games. It is indeed a bit more fiddly... I've found that it's generally easier to connect my Steam Deck to the TV and play lower fidelity games than it is to fiddle with a Windows machine that needs to be prepped for friends popping in every other month. Although, Nintendo is still doing a good job at keeping the couch-social experience alive, and building 1st party games that can be good solo experiences but really shine when played next to a friend sitting on the same couch.
tetha 11mo ago
> Don’t let the “low specs” fool you, it has the same specs or better as 70% of steam users. We are also out of the rat race of hardware requirements of the 90s. I'm on a 7 year old system and if you're not chasing to max out the latest AAA game on launch, that thing can run a lot of games. It's mainly storage and RAM for modded minecraft or Satisfactory that's a bit of a mess atm. Though RAM prices are spicy at the moment, jeez. Similar, my dad has my system from 10 years ago or more, and the only real snag for his strategy games is now a DX12 requirement.
- NooneAtAll3 11mo ago
  any strategy game recommendations from your dad?
- lm28469 11mo ago
  > I'm on a 7 year old system and if you're not chasing to max out the latest AAA game on launch Yep, people who didn't fall for the resolution meme can play any games maxed out with a 2060. People chasing 4k and 120+ fps will never ever get satisfied and will always spend $1k every other year for the new high end gpu I made two upgrades since 2015, ryzen 7 1700 to ryzen 5 5600,for $100. And I swapped my gtx 970 for an rtx 2060, for $300
rvz 11mo ago
> Steam Machines can become an existencial crisis for PlayStation and Xbox. Not really. An existential crisis to System76, Framework computer and all the other Linux computer companies. > A “console” that I can use as a PC? I am in 100%. You’ll get the world biggest game library at a discount, this is why I sold my PlayStation after spending 200 euros and watching it becoming useless. No different to getting a regular PC but this time you can just buy a high performance state of the art GPU like the NVIDIA RTX 5090 and it runs all your games at 4K @ 120 FPS instead of 60. > I also suspect a lot of game devs will optimize for steam machine and finally we’ll get a console like experience on PC. Proton is the software that is doing the optimizations. However once you want to run a highly anticipated game like Battlefield 6 and your friends are playing it on their Windows PCs and consoles on day 1, the Steam Machine is left behind waiting for compatibility updates. > Don’t let the “low specs” fool you, it has the same specs or better as 70% of steam users. 2020 specs in 2026 isn't really good for convincing 70% of Windows PC gamers or console players either. The real test is when the next generation Xbox or Playstation arrives, will the Steam Machine outsell them? > Given Valve gave money to a lot of open source maintainers , it’s also great for Linux. We will see if that is enough to convince Steam players to run SteamOS instead of Windows or consoles. but so far it is totally underpowered and you might as well get a Windows PC + Nvidia RTX 5090 which runs all your games well including the highly anticipated ones. No thanks and no deal.
- Kudos 11mo ago
  This and machines with 5090s are a completely different market. The Steam Machine is marketed primarily as something sitting under your TV. I don't have 5090 under my TV money, 99.9% of people don't. That's not the target demographic.
- fooblaster 11mo ago
  A 5090 is likely 3x the cost of the steam machine. You are at the extreme high end of the gaming market here and not the target of the steam machine.
imiric 11mo ago
I don't think it's an existential crisis for console manufacturers, but it's certainly part of a shift in how we think about "consoles". Microsoft has seen the writing on the wall for years now, and they've expanded their library to run across platforms. The Xbox as we knew it is effectively dead. Sony and Nintendo are still holding on to the legacy concept, and trying to lure people into their walled garden, but even their hardware is essentially a general purpose PC that happens to be locked down in software. So I suspect we'll see one last traditional "console" generation with the PS6 and whatever Nintendo makes next, and after that the concept of a single-purpose machine will fizzle out. Nintendo will probably be the last to give in, since they have the strongest first-party IPs to make that feasible, but eventually they'll follow suit as well.
eigenspace 11mo ago
It's certainly not an existential threat to Playstation, but Xbox certainly has weakened itself enough that yes, this could be another nail in the coffin, given that their plan was to retreat into the Windows ecosystem. The low specs aren't a problem if it's cheap enough, but for every dollar this goes above the retail price of a PS5 will seriously hurt its mass appeal. The problem for Valve is that they can't really sell this thing at a console-like discount, because it's a general purpose computer. If this thing is way cheaper than a regular computer of the same spec, corporations will just buy up Steam Machines by the palette load and use them as office machines or whatever (just like what happened to Sony when they allowed the PS3 to boot into Linux and they had to release an emergency update that disabled the linux functionality even though it was an advertised feature). I really hope this will be successful, but it'll likely be successful in a specific niche. The nice thing though about this niche is that they don't have to hit anywhere near the same sales numbers as a console to be a success because the R&D costs are lower, and games didn't have to be specifically tailor made for it. E.g. the PS Vita sold more units than the SteamDeck, but the Vita was an unmitigated failure for Sony because unlike the SteamDeck, the Vita needed games to be specifically made for it, whereas the SteamDeck benefits from the entire PC ecosystem so doesn't need the same level of adoption to be a (limited) success.
- tpoacher 11mo ago
  > If this thing is way cheaper than a regular computer of the same spec, corporations will just buy up Steam Machines by the palette load and use them as office machines or whatever On one hand, this would be a problem. On the other hand, if the Steam Machine doesn't support windows, businesses fleeing from MS Windows en masse because the Steam Machine is cheap would be a VERY interesting turn of events, and I'd be VERY curious to see how it all unfolds.
  - eigenspace 11mo ago
    Sorry if I was unclear, but what I was saying was that this would be unsustainable because the only way it'd be possible is if Valve was subsidizing each unit in hopes of recouping their losses on Steam game sales. If that happened, Valve would get bankrupted by companies buying up subsidized Steam Machines with no intention of playing games on them.
mkjs 11mo ago
It's not a console you can use as a PC, it's a PC you can use as a PC. If you want a console you can use as a PC, the next Xbox is rumoured to be along those lines. It will run Windows so you can play Steam, GOG etc but will also run the existing Xbox library natively. The 70% figure needs to be taken in context, tons of people have Steam installed on old computers that they use for old games. I currently have it installed on three devices, and yes two of them are worse specs than this. But I don't have any intention of upgrading them either, they are just old machines I have hanging around. They do the job if I'm travelling.
- lp0_on_fire 11mo ago
  Is that actually confirmed? That Microsoft is going to allow steam and other third party stores on the new Xbox console?
Wurdan 11mo ago
I don't really get why people are calling it a console. It is a PC to me in all the ways that matter, and it's probably going to save me from spending 1500 euros on a mid-range gaming laptop that I don't really need. The only thing that I don't use my ipad for is playing games with my friends in other countries while we chat on discord. And the last 5 games we've played together do benefit from keyboard and mouse controls, but don't have huge spec requirements. And pretty much everything else for which I'd want a bigger screen than my ipad's can be done in the browser, which I can also happily install on the steam machine because it's just a Linux machine with some extra bells. So yeah, it will probably completely replace my need for a PC, and I'd be plenty happy to pay a PC price for it as a result.
- NooneAtAll3 11mo ago
  > I don't really get why people are calling it a console. It is a PC to me because "console" isn't what a product is (supply) - it is a name for product niche (demand) when someone talks about buying a console, the expectations are 1)significantly cheaper than "usual" computer 2)most likely optimized for games (controller input, easy install) 3)expectation of using already existing TV as display consoles weren't different from low-end pc all the way since x-box
- nialv7 11mo ago
  Well, it's kind of a new thing, isn't it. Just like the deck popularized the idea of "handheld PCs". Maybe the Machine will do the same to "console PC". It's a PC, but also a console.
- socalgal2 11mo ago
  To me, PC = Windows = Microsoft's Spyware and every other game company's anti-cheat root kits Someone might say I can install Linux on my PC but then I have to deal with maintaining it. So, what I hope the Steam Machine is, is effectively PC based console with no Microsoft, no root kits, and no maintainence.
  - graemep 11mo ago
    > Someone might say I can install Linux on my PC but then I have to deal with maintaining it. What maintenance do you mean? I do not know of an OS that does not require allowing updates to keep secure. It definitely meets the other criteria you want.
Arch-TK 11mo ago
Valve isn't likely to make SteamOS the kind of platform that facilitates intrusive* anti-cheat** or which is locked down in a way to prevent cheating at the client side. This means that a number of competitive multiplayer games will never run on it. I think in this regard, consoles still have an advantage*** if you're into those kinds of games. * I don't care what the intention is, they are _objectively_ intrusive. ** Last time I argued this, someone seemed to assume that I was claiming that writing Linux kernel drivers is harder than Windows kernel drivers. I am not arguing that, you need some kind of trusted party enforcing signed kernel drivers and a signed kernel in order to make KLA sufficiently hard to bypass. *** In terms of the average Joe just wanting their game to run rather than having to think about the ethical implications of buying hardware you don't actually own or running an OS which gives control of your hardware to various corporations (but not you).
- speed_spread 11mo ago
  There is a real need for anti cheat / certified hardware. Valve is uniquely be positioned to address it because they have trust from the gaming community. Ideally a single anti cheat mechanism would be shared by all software vendors. Online games could request "console mode" involving hardware key exchange. Done right this wouldn't have to be invasive like current anti cheat.
  - Arch-TK 11mo ago
    It's either invasive anti-cheat on a vendor controlled platform or it's a totally locked down vendor controlled platform, there are no other options in the client side anti cheat space. Given that valve refuses to use KLA for their own competitive multiplayer games, and has gone out of their way to not make their hardware locked down, I really dont think they will go down the path of making a locked down platform or facilitating intrusive anti cheat.
    - bryanlarsen 11mo ago
      Is it truly either-or? Obviously the root of anti-cheat needs to be totally locked down, aka the TPM. But almost all "open" computers have a locked down TPM. The TPM doesn't need to prevent you from running an unsigned firmware, kernel, modules or user software, it only needs to report on whether you are / have. You can reboot your computer into "trusted" mode and run your games with anti-cheat. Then when you're done playing you can as much unsigned software as you want.
deng 11mo ago
> Steam Machines can become an existencial crisis for PlayStation and Xbox. Xbox, as a console, already is in an existential crisis. I think people have weird expectations about what the Steam Machine will cost. From what Valve has said so far (cheaper than if you build it yourself from parts), it will still cost significantly more than a PS5, and probably also more than a PS5 Pro, while having less performance than both. You will not beat the PS5 in terms of performance per dollar. Yes, games are more expensive on PS5, but most people don't work that way but just want to know whether they'll be able to play GTA6 on day one.
JKCalhoun 11mo ago
Funny to see "Game Machine that can be used as a PC" when, as I was growing up, it was "Personal Computer can also play games". In both cases I suppose it was the dedicated gaming-machines (Switch now, Atari then) that were feeling the squeeze.
- acomjean 11mo ago
  Yeah, learn with the computer! When I was growing we had an intellivision game console. My parents bought us the "keyboard component" that turned it into a computer. What a terrible computer it was. Turned out it was released because the company was being fined for advertising a computer add on and not delivering. You wanted to write games but no, worse than the timex Sinclair 1000... A lot of home computing used tvs back then https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entertainment_Computer_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entertainment_Computer_System
deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
SergeAx 11mo ago
> and finally we’ll get a console like experience on PC What do you mean by that? The PC experience with adequate hardware is almost universally better than the console experience.
- mariopt 11mo ago
  Games being optimised for specific hardware. Some games just run better on the PS when compared to the PC version, regardless of you having the latest and best PC. You can see this fairly well on the Nintendo Switch, which is a low spec tablet but the games run very well and the experience is great. PC Games, generally speaking, tend to favor keyboard and mouse not controllers. This is why I suspect game devs will start optimising for the Steam Machine, provided it sells well.

by mariopt 11mo ago

0x073 11mo ago

Then sony produce ps only exclusive s. No pc ports anymore.

dangus 11mo ago
I don’t think that’s true. The whole reason they’re producing PC ports is to sell the most profitable part (software) to those who to haven’t been giving them money. Sony makes zero dollars off of the consoles, and while they do enjoy taking their PS Store royalties rather than giving it up to Steam, they also have a huge collection of first party studios that might even be a more important business. And it’s not like Sony is giving their big console releases PC ports on day one, if you want to own them right away you have to buy a PlayStation.
- firesteelrain 11mo ago
  You are mostly right about the broad strategy but a few of the claims are too absolute. Sony does make money on hardware later in the cycle even if margins are small. They also care about PC ports for more than just pure profit such as extending the IP footprint and keeping franchises visible between major releases. The part about delayed PC ports is completely correct. PlayStation is still the primary window and PC is the secondary revenue phase once the console market is saturated.
- philistine 11mo ago
  How could you believe that Sony would give up 30% of every Call of Duty, Madden, Fortnite sale for the measly PC sales of Slapper-Man 2 and God of Warm? Every Steam Machine sold that plays Sony's exclusives is a genuine threat to Sony's control over the gaming market. The more I think about it, the more I believe Sony's games coming to PC is over since yesterday's announcement.
TheRoque 11mo ago
Not going to happen. In fact, they seem to go the opposite direction because there's more money to be made.
- 0x073 11mo ago
  I also don't believe it, but sony was a all time bad player. I like the Xbox because they changed so much in the console ecosystem, play anywhere, backwards compatibility without extra cost.
shantara 11mo ago
Sony’s current tactics is to publish all their releases on PC 6-12 months later. Doing this expands the potential player base and even makes some players to double dip and buy the game twice
- philistine 11mo ago
  If this Steam Machine really takes off and starts impacting Sony's ability to sell Playstation consoles, you bet your ass Sony will stop porting games to PC.
pezezin 11mo ago
That is only a problem if you suffer from FOMO. Otherwise there are enough PC games for a hundred lifetimes.

TheRoque 11mo ago

Exactly, I sold my Switch because I just happened to play most of my games on PC and steam. Worst case scenario, it can be a desktop computer (I don't have one, only a laptop) Whereas a playstation or a switch, once I don't game anymore, it's just an expensive paperweight

CalRobert 11mo ago

Man, I got a free ps5 from my isp and was excited to have friends over for games. Come to find out that playing games with your friends apparently isn’t a thing anymore (I guess there’s fighting and racing games). What a lame-ass boring system.

Philip-J-Fry 11mo ago
Playing games with friends has never been more popular. I guess couch co-op has been replaced with online multiplayer. The assumption being that if you want to play with friends, they'll have their own device. But there's still plenty of couch co-op games. They're usually quite niche though and not your typical racing or shooting game.
- CalRobert 11mo ago
  We ended up hooking up my old N64 and playing Goldeneye
- littlestymaar 11mo ago
  > I guess couch co-op has been replaced with online multiplayer. The assumption being that if you want to play with friends, they'll have their own device. What's the point with a console then though?
christophilus 11mo ago
It is on the Nintendo Switch. My kids play loads of Mario Party, Minecraft and Mario Cart.
IggleSniggle 11mo ago
This is why I've been all in on Steam for so long! The catalog is so huge, there's a massive number of fantastic couch multiplayer games. It is indeed a bit more fiddly... I've found that it's generally easier to connect my Steam Deck to the TV and play lower fidelity games than it is to fiddle with a Windows machine that needs to be prepped for friends popping in every other month. Although, Nintendo is still doing a good job at keeping the couch-social experience alive, and building 1st party games that can be good solo experiences but really shine when played next to a friend sitting on the same couch.

tetha 11mo ago

> Don’t let the “low specs” fool you, it has the same specs or better as 70% of steam users. We are also out of the rat race of hardware requirements of the 90s. I'm on a 7 year old system and if you're not chasing to max out the latest AAA game on launch, that thing can run a lot of games. It's mainly storage and RAM for modded minecraft or Satisfactory that's a bit of a mess atm. Though RAM prices are spicy at the moment, jeez. Similar, my dad has my system from 10 years ago or more, and the only real snag for his strategy games is now a DX12 requirement.

NooneAtAll3 11mo ago
any strategy game recommendations from your dad?
lm28469 11mo ago
> I'm on a 7 year old system and if you're not chasing to max out the latest AAA game on launch Yep, people who didn't fall for the resolution meme can play any games maxed out with a 2060. People chasing 4k and 120+ fps will never ever get satisfied and will always spend $1k every other year for the new high end gpu I made two upgrades since 2015, ryzen 7 1700 to ryzen 5 5600,for $100. And I swapped my gtx 970 for an rtx 2060, for $300

rvz 11mo ago

> Steam Machines can become an existencial crisis for PlayStation and Xbox. Not really. An existential crisis to System76, Framework computer and all the other Linux computer companies. > A “console” that I can use as a PC? I am in 100%. You’ll get the world biggest game library at a discount, this is why I sold my PlayStation after spending 200 euros and watching it becoming useless. No different to getting a regular PC but this time you can just buy a high performance state of the art GPU like the NVIDIA RTX 5090 and it runs all your games at 4K @ 120 FPS instead of 60. > I also suspect a lot of game devs will optimize for steam machine and finally we’ll get a console like experience on PC. Proton is the software that is doing the optimizations. However once you want to run a highly anticipated game like Battlefield 6 and your friends are playing it on their Windows PCs and consoles on day 1, the Steam Machine is left behind waiting for compatibility updates. > Don’t let the “low specs” fool you, it has the same specs or better as 70% of steam users. 2020 specs in 2026 isn't really good for convincing 70% of Windows PC gamers or console players either. The real test is when the next generation Xbox or Playstation arrives, will the Steam Machine outsell them? > Given Valve gave money to a lot of open source maintainers , it’s also great for Linux. We will see if that is enough to convince Steam players to run SteamOS instead of Windows or consoles. but so far it is totally underpowered and you might as well get a Windows PC + Nvidia RTX 5090 which runs all your games well including the highly anticipated ones. No thanks and no deal.

Kudos 11mo ago
This and machines with 5090s are a completely different market. The Steam Machine is marketed primarily as something sitting under your TV. I don't have 5090 under my TV money, 99.9% of people don't. That's not the target demographic.
fooblaster 11mo ago
A 5090 is likely 3x the cost of the steam machine. You are at the extreme high end of the gaming market here and not the target of the steam machine.

imiric 11mo ago

I don't think it's an existential crisis for console manufacturers, but it's certainly part of a shift in how we think about "consoles". Microsoft has seen the writing on the wall for years now, and they've expanded their library to run across platforms. The Xbox as we knew it is effectively dead. Sony and Nintendo are still holding on to the legacy concept, and trying to lure people into their walled garden, but even their hardware is essentially a general purpose PC that happens to be locked down in software. So I suspect we'll see one last traditional "console" generation with the PS6 and whatever Nintendo makes next, and after that the concept of a single-purpose machine will fizzle out. Nintendo will probably be the last to give in, since they have the strongest first-party IPs to make that feasible, but eventually they'll follow suit as well.

eigenspace 11mo ago

It's certainly not an existential threat to Playstation, but Xbox certainly has weakened itself enough that yes, this could be another nail in the coffin, given that their plan was to retreat into the Windows ecosystem. The low specs aren't a problem if it's cheap enough, but for every dollar this goes above the retail price of a PS5 will seriously hurt its mass appeal. The problem for Valve is that they can't really sell this thing at a console-like discount, because it's a general purpose computer. If this thing is way cheaper than a regular computer of the same spec, corporations will just buy up Steam Machines by the palette load and use them as office machines or whatever (just like what happened to Sony when they allowed the PS3 to boot into Linux and they had to release an emergency update that disabled the linux functionality even though it was an advertised feature). I really hope this will be successful, but it'll likely be successful in a specific niche. The nice thing though about this niche is that they don't have to hit anywhere near the same sales numbers as a console to be a success because the R&D costs are lower, and games didn't have to be specifically tailor made for it. E.g. the PS Vita sold more units than the SteamDeck, but the Vita was an unmitigated failure for Sony because unlike the SteamDeck, the Vita needed games to be specifically made for it, whereas the SteamDeck benefits from the entire PC ecosystem so doesn't need the same level of adoption to be a (limited) success.

tpoacher 11mo ago
> If this thing is way cheaper than a regular computer of the same spec, corporations will just buy up Steam Machines by the palette load and use them as office machines or whatever On one hand, this would be a problem. On the other hand, if the Steam Machine doesn't support windows, businesses fleeing from MS Windows en masse because the Steam Machine is cheap would be a VERY interesting turn of events, and I'd be VERY curious to see how it all unfolds.
- eigenspace 11mo ago
  Sorry if I was unclear, but what I was saying was that this would be unsustainable because the only way it'd be possible is if Valve was subsidizing each unit in hopes of recouping their losses on Steam game sales. If that happened, Valve would get bankrupted by companies buying up subsidized Steam Machines with no intention of playing games on them.

mkjs 11mo ago

It's not a console you can use as a PC, it's a PC you can use as a PC. If you want a console you can use as a PC, the next Xbox is rumoured to be along those lines. It will run Windows so you can play Steam, GOG etc but will also run the existing Xbox library natively. The 70% figure needs to be taken in context, tons of people have Steam installed on old computers that they use for old games. I currently have it installed on three devices, and yes two of them are worse specs than this. But I don't have any intention of upgrading them either, they are just old machines I have hanging around. They do the job if I'm travelling.

lp0_on_fire 11mo ago
Is that actually confirmed? That Microsoft is going to allow steam and other third party stores on the new Xbox console?

Wurdan 11mo ago

I don't really get why people are calling it a console. It is a PC to me in all the ways that matter, and it's probably going to save me from spending 1500 euros on a mid-range gaming laptop that I don't really need. The only thing that I don't use my ipad for is playing games with my friends in other countries while we chat on discord. And the last 5 games we've played together do benefit from keyboard and mouse controls, but don't have huge spec requirements. And pretty much everything else for which I'd want a bigger screen than my ipad's can be done in the browser, which I can also happily install on the steam machine because it's just a Linux machine with some extra bells. So yeah, it will probably completely replace my need for a PC, and I'd be plenty happy to pay a PC price for it as a result.

NooneAtAll3 11mo ago
> I don't really get why people are calling it a console. It is a PC to me because "console" isn't what a product is (supply) - it is a name for product niche (demand) when someone talks about buying a console, the expectations are 1)significantly cheaper than "usual" computer 2)most likely optimized for games (controller input, easy install) 3)expectation of using already existing TV as display consoles weren't different from low-end pc all the way since x-box
nialv7 11mo ago
Well, it's kind of a new thing, isn't it. Just like the deck popularized the idea of "handheld PCs". Maybe the Machine will do the same to "console PC". It's a PC, but also a console.
socalgal2 11mo ago
To me, PC = Windows = Microsoft's Spyware and every other game company's anti-cheat root kits Someone might say I can install Linux on my PC but then I have to deal with maintaining it. So, what I hope the Steam Machine is, is effectively PC based console with no Microsoft, no root kits, and no maintainence.
- graemep 11mo ago
  > Someone might say I can install Linux on my PC but then I have to deal with maintaining it. What maintenance do you mean? I do not know of an OS that does not require allowing updates to keep secure. It definitely meets the other criteria you want.

Arch-TK 11mo ago

Valve isn't likely to make SteamOS the kind of platform that facilitates intrusive* anti-cheat** or which is locked down in a way to prevent cheating at the client side. This means that a number of competitive multiplayer games will never run on it. I think in this regard, consoles still have an advantage*** if you're into those kinds of games. * I don't care what the intention is, they are _objectively_ intrusive. ** Last time I argued this, someone seemed to assume that I was claiming that writing Linux kernel drivers is harder than Windows kernel drivers. I am not arguing that, you need some kind of trusted party enforcing signed kernel drivers and a signed kernel in order to make KLA sufficiently hard to bypass. *** In terms of the average Joe just wanting their game to run rather than having to think about the ethical implications of buying hardware you don't actually own or running an OS which gives control of your hardware to various corporations (but not you).

speed_spread 11mo ago
There is a real need for anti cheat / certified hardware. Valve is uniquely be positioned to address it because they have trust from the gaming community. Ideally a single anti cheat mechanism would be shared by all software vendors. Online games could request "console mode" involving hardware key exchange. Done right this wouldn't have to be invasive like current anti cheat.
- Arch-TK 11mo ago
  It's either invasive anti-cheat on a vendor controlled platform or it's a totally locked down vendor controlled platform, there are no other options in the client side anti cheat space. Given that valve refuses to use KLA for their own competitive multiplayer games, and has gone out of their way to not make their hardware locked down, I really dont think they will go down the path of making a locked down platform or facilitating intrusive anti cheat.
  - bryanlarsen 11mo ago
    Is it truly either-or? Obviously the root of anti-cheat needs to be totally locked down, aka the TPM. But almost all "open" computers have a locked down TPM. The TPM doesn't need to prevent you from running an unsigned firmware, kernel, modules or user software, it only needs to report on whether you are / have. You can reboot your computer into "trusted" mode and run your games with anti-cheat. Then when you're done playing you can as much unsigned software as you want.

deng 11mo ago

> Steam Machines can become an existencial crisis for PlayStation and Xbox. Xbox, as a console, already is in an existential crisis. I think people have weird expectations about what the Steam Machine will cost. From what Valve has said so far (cheaper than if you build it yourself from parts), it will still cost significantly more than a PS5, and probably also more than a PS5 Pro, while having less performance than both. You will not beat the PS5 in terms of performance per dollar. Yes, games are more expensive on PS5, but most people don't work that way but just want to know whether they'll be able to play GTA6 on day one.

JKCalhoun 11mo ago

Funny to see "Game Machine that can be used as a PC" when, as I was growing up, it was "Personal Computer can also play games". In both cases I suppose it was the dedicated gaming-machines (Switch now, Atari then) that were feeling the squeeze.

acomjean 11mo ago
Yeah, learn with the computer! When I was growing we had an intellivision game console. My parents bought us the "keyboard component" that turned it into a computer. What a terrible computer it was. Turned out it was released because the company was being fined for advertising a computer add on and not delivering. You wanted to write games but no, worse than the timex Sinclair 1000... A lot of home computing used tvs back then https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entertainment_Computer_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entertainment_Computer_System

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SergeAx 11mo ago

> and finally we’ll get a console like experience on PC What do you mean by that? The PC experience with adequate hardware is almost universally better than the console experience.

mariopt 11mo ago
Games being optimised for specific hardware. Some games just run better on the PS when compared to the PC version, regardless of you having the latest and best PC. You can see this fairly well on the Nintendo Switch, which is a low spec tablet but the games run very well and the experience is great. PC Games, generally speaking, tend to favor keyboard and mouse not controllers. This is why I suspect game devs will start optimising for the Steam Machine, provided it sells well.