5 ms·

Cool project, not cool that it needs to exist. Apple isn’t only content to leech off OSS software, they have to force the existence of more of it to workaround

by WD-42 11mo ago

Cool project, not cool that it needs to exist. Apple isn’t only content to leech off OSS software, they have to force the existence of more of it to workaround what they closed off.

blackqueeriroh 11mo ago
Uhhhh, Apple donates a ton of code to OSS
- WD-42 11mo ago
  When the license legally compels them to, and sometimes not even then.
  - Razengan 11mo ago
    Look up Swift
    - bloppe 11mo ago
      You mean the language that approximately nobody uses outside XCode, which requires you to register an Apple developer account to function? The same language that only switched to an OSS license after they realized nobody wanted to contribute to a proprietary language? Swift is OSS, but it's not a great example to illustrate your point.
      - raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
        Swift went open source the day it was released. I don’t think Apple needs outside contributors. I think it has enough resources that it would be okay Darwin’s underlying code was BSD license and didn’t require releasing source code.
        bloppe 11mo ago
        "[Swift] was initially a proprietary language, but version 2.2 was made open-source software under the Apache License 2.0 on December 3, 2015" Darwin is also a bad example: "On July 25, 2006, the OpenDarwin team announced that the project was shutting down, as they felt OpenDarwin had "become a mere hosting facility for Mac OS X related projects", and that the efforts to create a standalone Darwin operating system had failed.[40] They also state: "Availability of sources, interaction with Apple representatives, difficulty building and tracking sources, and a lack of interest from the community have all contributed to this."[41]" "PureDarwin is a project to create a bootable operating system image from Apple's released source code for Darwin.[43] Since the halt of OpenDarwin and the release of bootable images since Darwin 8.x, it has been increasingly difficult to create a full operating system as many components became closed source."
        laserlight 11mo ago
        What does OpenDarwin or PureDarwin, independent projects, have to do with the fact that Darwin, Apple’s OS kernel, is open source?
        WD-42 11mo ago
        Because they show that Darwin may be technically open source, but Apple are horrible stewards of it. It's impossible to actually build a usable operating system from it, which is probably their intent.
        WD-42 11mo ago
        Just because the license doesn't require it doesn't mean they aren't a leech.
        stavros 11mo ago
        They are a leech exactly because they didn't release stuff when given the option. If you're forced to release stuff, that doesn't tell me anything about whether you're a leech or not. Only what you do of your own volition does.
  - suprjami 11mo ago
    Unsurprisingly, you cannot assign a single intent to 166k+ people. Just like Microsoft there are parts of the company who are hostile to open source, and there parts of the company whose success is attributable to open source.
    - bloppe 11mo ago
      True, but you can compare them to, say, Google, which maintains thriving OSS projects like Chromium and AOSP and generally does a way better job at publishing code and research.
      - ho_schi 11mo ago
        I wouldn’t mention as positive example. I wouldn’t even mention them as example. Apple cooperates within WebKit well with WebKitGtk. They supported LLVM when it is in their interest. Chrome is used as proprietary web-engine to vendor lock-in the web. While often used by others, I’m not aware of a broad cooperation. Android is a shadow of Linux, merely using the Linux-Kernel, not GNU. Plus a lot of closed-source code (PlayServices, App Signatures, Google Cloud, Google Apps). Googles open-source projects seem often exclusive Google only projects? Google works together with others! But especially Chrome and AOSP are…causing worries.
        bloppe 11mo ago
        AOSP is the foundation of GrapheneOS, LineageOS and dozens of other patently non-Google systems. Chromium is the foundation for Edge, Brave, Opera, and every single AI browser being churned out by the dozen. Many of the Chromium forks are specifically designed to block Google ads. There's a reason most of these projects picked AOSP over iOS, or even Chromium over WebKit. Google just engages with the community better than Apple. It's silly to pretend like they're on the same level.
    - gf000 11mo ago
      You can absolutely assign intent to a company, it's not an arbitrary grouping of 166k people.
  - dagmx 11mo ago
    An incomplete list here but most aren’t a license that compels them to contribute anything. https://opensource.apple.com/projects/ https://opensource.apple.com/projects/
    - ece 11mo ago
      I think it's fair to say Apple's cross platform work is a couple of Android and PC apps, the Mac boot loader, and Swift. Even on this page, Apple seems more like a user of the community projects than a contributor and the Apple projects seem to be for internal use or for Apple platforms. Kind of misses the point in being cross platform the way librepod is aiming to be.
      - dagmx 11mo ago
        That’s not what this particular thread is about, you’re referencing the parent topic but not the current thread. This is about whether they contribute to open source or not.
        ece 11mo ago
        Contributing to open source isn't a substitute for having cross platform products, features and support.
        dagmx 11mo ago
        Again, I repeat, not what this thread is about.
- Razengan 11mo ago
  [flagged]
Lammy 11mo ago
Seeing how much effort this takes makes me feel vindicated for never buying in to the wireless-earbud trend at all. I love love love having one of the few modern Androids with a real TRRS jack (REDMAGIC 9S Pro) and wired earbuds (Etymōtic ER4XR), that I never need to charge, that can't get lost, and that can't spy on me: https://i.imgur.com/4yymgYO.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/4yymgYO.jpeg What a silly feature list the AirPods have, too. Transparency? I use earbuds to avoid having to hear the outside world. Ear Detection? My phone does the same thing with my default music app when it detects the jack plugged back in. Multiple devices (up to two)? lol. Head Gestures? How many people even answer the phone at all now after years of relentless spam? Conversational Awareness? I got a $3 clip to attach the wire to my shirt collar, and if I talk to someone or someone talks to me I yank one or both buds out and let them dangle freely with no worry of getting lost or stolen: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08BL44TW4 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08BL44TW4 I would be totally down to adopt a new paradigm if it was actually better in any way I cared about, but it's just not and never was. People seem to like 'em a lot, though, so I'm still glad to see these supported on non-Apple gear :)
- Aurornis 11mo ago
  > What a silly feature list the AirPods have, too. Transparency? I use earbuds to avoid having to hear the outside world. What a silly thing to dismiss a product over. The transparency levels are actually a great feature. You can go from noise cancelling to being able to have a perfect conversation with someone or listen for the kids with a quick squeeze of the earbud. I use it all the time. Likewise your comment that it’s superior to buy a separate clip and attach the wire to yourself so people can yank them out is just asinine. Or is this parody? It’s hard to tell. This whole comment feels like someone trying to convince themselves that the thing they didn’t buy is actually terrible and bad, so they can pat themself on the back for not buying it.
- stavros 11mo ago
  "This one brand is bad, therefore I am right in dismissing the whole category of product."
  - Lammy 11mo ago
Aurornis 11mo ago
To be clear, you can use AirPods with an Android device for audio. It’s the extra convenience features integrated into iOS and macOS to change certain settings that have been reverse engineered here. And you can’t actually even use them without rooting your phone and applying a patch to Android’s Bluetooth stack.
- gf000 11mo ago
  A device sold not in small part due to its noise cancelling ability, yet having no way to turn it on/off when connected to Android is not an extra convenience feature.
  - philjohn 11mo ago
    You can turn it on and off with long presses on the airpod stalk itself.
    - gf000 11mo ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45944454 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45944454 I meant to add it here
KolibriFly 11mo ago
Apple's tight grip on their ecosystem ends up generating more open source out of sheer necessity... it's kind of ironic
boxfire 11mo ago
It’s exactly the same to try to use pixel buds on an Apple phone too. I don’t blame Apple or Google so much as the ridiculous pissing matches of a society that refuses to find ways to cooperate efficiently. So much energy is wasted in the name of vendor lock-in and related. Would it take more energy for Google and Apple to share in expanding into the Bluetooth capabilities in a shared way? Sure for their developers, in the short run. In less than a year the society wide savings far outweighs that. Apple people might cross pollinate and buy pixel buds. Android people will get airpods. Both companies could make even more money and save us all sanity. But we are organized for short term gains. Gradient descent without knowing or using the topology of the global complex. This isn’t Apple or Google’s job to fix, not even the government. it’s an issue at the social fabric level to have deep conscientiousness… so none of this is ever gonna change in our lives.
- ece 11mo ago
  I wonder which APIs aren't accessible on the iPhone so the same features can't be implemented on a iOS pixel buds app. Whataboutism and cynicism about the status quo notwithstanding, I do agree BT protocol and adherence to it could be improved though.
- bigyabai 11mo ago
  > It’s exactly the same to try to use pixel buds on an Apple phone too. Is it? You have to link me to the iOS patches that iPhone users have written to enable Pixel Buds on iOS. Or maybe it's not exactly the same.

by WD-42 11mo ago

Cool project, not cool that it needs to exist. Apple isn’t only content to leech off OSS software, they have to force the existence of more of it to workaround what they closed off.

blackqueeriroh 11mo ago

Uhhhh, Apple donates a ton of code to OSS

WD-42 11mo ago
When the license legally compels them to, and sometimes not even then.
- Razengan 11mo ago
  Look up Swift
  - bloppe 11mo ago
    You mean the language that approximately nobody uses outside XCode, which requires you to register an Apple developer account to function? The same language that only switched to an OSS license after they realized nobody wanted to contribute to a proprietary language? Swift is OSS, but it's not a great example to illustrate your point.
    - raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
      Swift went open source the day it was released. I don’t think Apple needs outside contributors. I think it has enough resources that it would be okay Darwin’s underlying code was BSD license and didn’t require releasing source code.
      - bloppe 11mo ago
        "[Swift] was initially a proprietary language, but version 2.2 was made open-source software under the Apache License 2.0 on December 3, 2015" Darwin is also a bad example: "On July 25, 2006, the OpenDarwin team announced that the project was shutting down, as they felt OpenDarwin had "become a mere hosting facility for Mac OS X related projects", and that the efforts to create a standalone Darwin operating system had failed.[40] They also state: "Availability of sources, interaction with Apple representatives, difficulty building and tracking sources, and a lack of interest from the community have all contributed to this."[41]" "PureDarwin is a project to create a bootable operating system image from Apple's released source code for Darwin.[43] Since the halt of OpenDarwin and the release of bootable images since Darwin 8.x, it has been increasingly difficult to create a full operating system as many components became closed source."
        laserlight 11mo ago
        What does OpenDarwin or PureDarwin, independent projects, have to do with the fact that Darwin, Apple’s OS kernel, is open source?
        WD-42 11mo ago
        Because they show that Darwin may be technically open source, but Apple are horrible stewards of it. It's impossible to actually build a usable operating system from it, which is probably their intent.
      - WD-42 11mo ago
        Just because the license doesn't require it doesn't mean they aren't a leech.
        stavros 11mo ago
        They are a leech exactly because they didn't release stuff when given the option. If you're forced to release stuff, that doesn't tell me anything about whether you're a leech or not. Only what you do of your own volition does.
- suprjami 11mo ago
  Unsurprisingly, you cannot assign a single intent to 166k+ people. Just like Microsoft there are parts of the company who are hostile to open source, and there parts of the company whose success is attributable to open source.
  - bloppe 11mo ago
    True, but you can compare them to, say, Google, which maintains thriving OSS projects like Chromium and AOSP and generally does a way better job at publishing code and research.
    - ho_schi 11mo ago
      I wouldn’t mention as positive example. I wouldn’t even mention them as example. Apple cooperates within WebKit well with WebKitGtk. They supported LLVM when it is in their interest. Chrome is used as proprietary web-engine to vendor lock-in the web. While often used by others, I’m not aware of a broad cooperation. Android is a shadow of Linux, merely using the Linux-Kernel, not GNU. Plus a lot of closed-source code (PlayServices, App Signatures, Google Cloud, Google Apps). Googles open-source projects seem often exclusive Google only projects? Google works together with others! But especially Chrome and AOSP are…causing worries.
      - bloppe 11mo ago
        AOSP is the foundation of GrapheneOS, LineageOS and dozens of other patently non-Google systems. Chromium is the foundation for Edge, Brave, Opera, and every single AI browser being churned out by the dozen. Many of the Chromium forks are specifically designed to block Google ads. There's a reason most of these projects picked AOSP over iOS, or even Chromium over WebKit. Google just engages with the community better than Apple. It's silly to pretend like they're on the same level.
  - gf000 11mo ago
    You can absolutely assign intent to a company, it's not an arbitrary grouping of 166k people.
- dagmx 11mo ago
  An incomplete list here but most aren’t a license that compels them to contribute anything. https://opensource.apple.com/projects/ https://opensource.apple.com/projects/
  - ece 11mo ago
    I think it's fair to say Apple's cross platform work is a couple of Android and PC apps, the Mac boot loader, and Swift. Even on this page, Apple seems more like a user of the community projects than a contributor and the Apple projects seem to be for internal use or for Apple platforms. Kind of misses the point in being cross platform the way librepod is aiming to be.
    - dagmx 11mo ago
      That’s not what this particular thread is about, you’re referencing the parent topic but not the current thread. This is about whether they contribute to open source or not.
      - ece 11mo ago
        Contributing to open source isn't a substitute for having cross platform products, features and support.
        dagmx 11mo ago
        Again, I repeat, not what this thread is about.
Razengan 11mo ago
[flagged]

Lammy 11mo ago

Seeing how much effort this takes makes me feel vindicated for never buying in to the wireless-earbud trend at all. I love love love having one of the few modern Androids with a real TRRS jack (REDMAGIC 9S Pro) and wired earbuds (Etymōtic ER4XR), that I never need to charge, that can't get lost, and that can't spy on me: https://i.imgur.com/4yymgYO.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/4yymgYO.jpeg What a silly feature list the AirPods have, too. Transparency? I use earbuds to avoid having to hear the outside world. Ear Detection? My phone does the same thing with my default music app when it detects the jack plugged back in. Multiple devices (up to two)? lol. Head Gestures? How many people even answer the phone at all now after years of relentless spam? Conversational Awareness? I got a $3 clip to attach the wire to my shirt collar, and if I talk to someone or someone talks to me I yank one or both buds out and let them dangle freely with no worry of getting lost or stolen: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08BL44TW4 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08BL44TW4 I would be totally down to adopt a new paradigm if it was actually better in any way I cared about, but it's just not and never was. People seem to like 'em a lot, though, so I'm still glad to see these supported on non-Apple gear :)

Aurornis 11mo ago
> What a silly feature list the AirPods have, too. Transparency? I use earbuds to avoid having to hear the outside world. What a silly thing to dismiss a product over. The transparency levels are actually a great feature. You can go from noise cancelling to being able to have a perfect conversation with someone or listen for the kids with a quick squeeze of the earbud. I use it all the time. Likewise your comment that it’s superior to buy a separate clip and attach the wire to yourself so people can yank them out is just asinine. Or is this parody? It’s hard to tell. This whole comment feels like someone trying to convince themselves that the thing they didn’t buy is actually terrible and bad, so they can pat themself on the back for not buying it.
stavros 11mo ago
"This one brand is bad, therefore I am right in dismissing the whole category of product."
- Lammy 11mo ago

Aurornis 11mo ago

To be clear, you can use AirPods with an Android device for audio. It’s the extra convenience features integrated into iOS and macOS to change certain settings that have been reverse engineered here. And you can’t actually even use them without rooting your phone and applying a patch to Android’s Bluetooth stack.

gf000 11mo ago
A device sold not in small part due to its noise cancelling ability, yet having no way to turn it on/off when connected to Android is not an extra convenience feature.
- philjohn 11mo ago
  You can turn it on and off with long presses on the airpod stalk itself.
  - gf000 11mo ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45944454 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45944454 I meant to add it here

KolibriFly 11mo ago

Apple's tight grip on their ecosystem ends up generating more open source out of sheer necessity... it's kind of ironic

boxfire 11mo ago

It’s exactly the same to try to use pixel buds on an Apple phone too. I don’t blame Apple or Google so much as the ridiculous pissing matches of a society that refuses to find ways to cooperate efficiently. So much energy is wasted in the name of vendor lock-in and related. Would it take more energy for Google and Apple to share in expanding into the Bluetooth capabilities in a shared way? Sure for their developers, in the short run. In less than a year the society wide savings far outweighs that. Apple people might cross pollinate and buy pixel buds. Android people will get airpods. Both companies could make even more money and save us all sanity. But we are organized for short term gains. Gradient descent without knowing or using the topology of the global complex. This isn’t Apple or Google’s job to fix, not even the government. it’s an issue at the social fabric level to have deep conscientiousness… so none of this is ever gonna change in our lives.

ece 11mo ago
I wonder which APIs aren't accessible on the iPhone so the same features can't be implemented on a iOS pixel buds app. Whataboutism and cynicism about the status quo notwithstanding, I do agree BT protocol and adherence to it could be improved though.
bigyabai 11mo ago
> It’s exactly the same to try to use pixel buds on an Apple phone too. Is it? You have to link me to the iOS patches that iPhone users have written to enable Pixel Buds on iOS. Or maybe it's not exactly the same.