3 ms·

Ask HN: Another Brand To Beat Apple In The Future

7 points by jmdev 18y ago

Do you guys think that in the future (5, 10 years) another brand will emerge and defeat Apple in the "coolness" and "in" factor? Imagine, in say 3 years, every stupid teenage girl will have an iPhone/iPod/Mac and clearly the geeks would like to "separate" once again via a sleek electronics brand that not many people have. So, the question is, do you think such brand will/could emerge? If so, what would you expect it to fell/look like? Maybe there's substantial wealth to be created in starting another electronics underdog brand now (but doing it differently). Look at the existing notebook brands now - Asus, Lenovo, Dell etc... - they ALL suck - they provide horrible experience usually and all fall in the same group defined as "not a Mac".

jmtulloss 18y ago
Palm. Disclaimer: I work for Palm. That being said, I actually believe it. The Pre rocks, and it's just the beginning. Plus, if the Pre works out, I'm sure we'll have a lot of motivated, intelligent people (maybe even from HN) willing to come help us out.
- andrewl-hn 18y ago
  Palm has a very recognizable brand, indeed. Besides there're not that many Palm phones around and it can help building 'uniqueness' of the products. Of course Nokia make great products, too. But their market share is just too bug to be an 'elite' product. Other manufacturers like HTC do not have such a strong brand like Palm. The problem with Palm might be that Pre 'is just a beginning'. I mean currently they have very few models and that eases the choice for consumers. Apple does it very well unlike HP, Asus and others and I personally think that helped them a lot. Today when you say 'HP laptop' I get no idea how it's going to look like. But if you say 'Apple laptop' I get a clear cut image of a shiny high quality product. Low number of models keep them recognizable among consumers. That's the key for building a strong recognizable brand. I think Palm will keep the 'cool' factor as long as they do not introduce very few new models. One or two WebOS-based phones is Ok but if there are going to be more they will become just another brand. Anyway the great products (especially the first-gen models) are essential if the company wants to become the Next Brand. Google made a huge mistake with G1. Everyone I talk about it says the phone looks very low-quality and cheap. And it seems like Android is not going to be cool after G1. I wonder what phone was the first to have a Windows Mobile. I suspect it wasn't a great phone.
  - brk 18y ago
    I wonder what phone was the first to have a Windows Mobile. I suspect it wasn't a great phone. I'm pretty sure it was the Audiovox Theia. I had one, it sucked. The battery life was good for about 2 calls. The radio would randomly shut off if the phone was idle for a few hours. App integration sucked.
- brk 18y ago
  I think Palm has a valid shot. One thing, IMO, that is crucial is to realize the world does not run on a single OS. The majority of your cool/hip adopter base in on OS X today. If the software to sync data, backup information, transfer photos, etc. does not run on something more than just windows I think a lot of people will never even bother to pick it up. That is the main reason I switched from a Blackberry to an iPhone. I miss my blackberry for most things, but I DON'T miss not being able to really do much with it with OS X. And yes, I'm aware of the various 3rd party apps that almost work for about 50% of the functionality.
- jmdev 18y ago
  Remember the answer doesn't have to be a phone device. I might be something else...created bottom-up. I still think that a narrow strategy focused at a specific market might be a success..like a dream mobile linux device - with something extra to it..
pg 18y ago
It seems unlikely. Apple is the result of a unique combination of circumstances: a CEO who is both terrifyingly effective and also has a great sense of design. There are very few people with both those qualities. Even if boards of existing companies consciously tried to pick CEOs with design sense, they wouldn't be able to, because you can't recognize it unless you have it. So the only way you could get another CEO like Steve Jobs would be the way he himself got the job: by founding the company.
- jmdev 18y ago
  Exactly. The company needs to be a start-up where the founder will create the device mainly for himself - as his dream device. That's where it starts.... I still think there's a huge revolution coming to consumer devices. Right now, everyone's focusing on phones - namely iPhone killers and they will fail, because the answer is different - and part of the business problem is having such a unique brand that might stand up against apple and that you can build on top of it - when you see people with their Macs open and see the glowing Apple logo - this is a powerful indicator and there has to me something more to this, new, powerful and very unique...and new technologies such as flexible OLEDS etc can be building blocks.. Good thing is to start with a niche target (say 1 million target users) If the new start-up focuses on creating a super hackers device - now they would be on to something...
  - froo 18y ago
    One of the step I'd like to see is a phone manufacturer taking is what I think to be the next logical step in mobile technology, where your mobile device (phone) integrates with a desktop device (PC peripherals) more readily. What I mean is that your phone would become your device for surfing the web, working on documents, email etc - that you could sit into a dock of some form that would create the Personal Computer experience wherever you are and when you're done, you just take your phone with you. This would be enhanced with cloud storage and services obviously.
mixmax 18y ago
Yes, it's the way of the cool-cycle. 10 years ago everyone thought Bang & Olufsen (http://www.bang-olufsen.com/ http://www.bang-olufsen.com/) was the coolest stereo around. Everybody wanted to have one, and eventually the not-so-cool people got one too. Now the cool people would never be seen alive with a Bang & Olufsen stereo, because everyone has got it. Even their dad, by definition the most uncool person on the face of the earth, has one standing around in his un-cool living room. The reason something is cool is that trendsetters and opinion leaders endorse it. The reason they endorse it is that nobody else has it yet. (And of course that it has some merit of it's own, which Apple certainly has) Once it goes mainstream they will start looking for something the new thing. I see this happening to Apple right now, the opinion leaders are starting to move on because apple products are becoming mainstream. This is a major issue that Apple will have to address: if they continue their growth cycle they will become main-stream and cannot keep playing the cool-card in their marketing. If I knew what would replace them though, I wouldn't comment on HN, but sipping champagne on a tropical island with a russian supermodel and a good book.
- nailer 18y ago
  My wife and I live in a part of East London that's particularly cool, and went for martinis on the way home last night. I have an iPhone, she has a G1. We ran into an old friend of my wives, who commented on how cool the G1 was. The iPhone went uncommented, much in the same way a B&O stereo would.
satyajit 18y ago
I am sure its possible. Apple has the right combination of marketing, technology and design to make what they are today. Having said that, its a recent phenomena - several years back, we all thought SGI made the mean machines, where are they now? But I wish Apple comes up with something more killer product, diversify even more ... like you know, may be a car audio player. That will have the same wow factor of iPod/iTouch - somewhat internet enabled. So you can directly download/buy music into your car audio, and play online media ... and of course, it can double up as a iPhone and map device. Much of its out there already, but still its a scrambled market. Apple need to lead the way in usability. I'm sure Jobs can turn this into a multi-billion dollar franchise.
nailer 18y ago
Do you really think most consumers define Asus, Lenovo and Dell as 'not a Mac'? I think it's a deficiency of Vista's part (and age on XP's part) that pushes some people to Macs. But perhaps Windows 7 will stop pushing people away. I also doubt that most computer geeks either own Macs or define cool.

7 points by jmdev 18y ago

jmtulloss 18y ago

Palm. Disclaimer: I work for Palm. That being said, I actually believe it. The Pre rocks, and it's just the beginning. Plus, if the Pre works out, I'm sure we'll have a lot of motivated, intelligent people (maybe even from HN) willing to come help us out.

andrewl-hn 18y ago
Palm has a very recognizable brand, indeed. Besides there're not that many Palm phones around and it can help building 'uniqueness' of the products. Of course Nokia make great products, too. But their market share is just too bug to be an 'elite' product. Other manufacturers like HTC do not have such a strong brand like Palm. The problem with Palm might be that Pre 'is just a beginning'. I mean currently they have very few models and that eases the choice for consumers. Apple does it very well unlike HP, Asus and others and I personally think that helped them a lot. Today when you say 'HP laptop' I get no idea how it's going to look like. But if you say 'Apple laptop' I get a clear cut image of a shiny high quality product. Low number of models keep them recognizable among consumers. That's the key for building a strong recognizable brand. I think Palm will keep the 'cool' factor as long as they do not introduce very few new models. One or two WebOS-based phones is Ok but if there are going to be more they will become just another brand. Anyway the great products (especially the first-gen models) are essential if the company wants to become the Next Brand. Google made a huge mistake with G1. Everyone I talk about it says the phone looks very low-quality and cheap. And it seems like Android is not going to be cool after G1. I wonder what phone was the first to have a Windows Mobile. I suspect it wasn't a great phone.
- brk 18y ago
  I wonder what phone was the first to have a Windows Mobile. I suspect it wasn't a great phone. I'm pretty sure it was the Audiovox Theia. I had one, it sucked. The battery life was good for about 2 calls. The radio would randomly shut off if the phone was idle for a few hours. App integration sucked.
brk 18y ago
I think Palm has a valid shot. One thing, IMO, that is crucial is to realize the world does not run on a single OS. The majority of your cool/hip adopter base in on OS X today. If the software to sync data, backup information, transfer photos, etc. does not run on something more than just windows I think a lot of people will never even bother to pick it up. That is the main reason I switched from a Blackberry to an iPhone. I miss my blackberry for most things, but I DON'T miss not being able to really do much with it with OS X. And yes, I'm aware of the various 3rd party apps that almost work for about 50% of the functionality.
jmdev 18y ago
Remember the answer doesn't have to be a phone device. I might be something else...created bottom-up. I still think that a narrow strategy focused at a specific market might be a success..like a dream mobile linux device - with something extra to it..

pg 18y ago

It seems unlikely. Apple is the result of a unique combination of circumstances: a CEO who is both terrifyingly effective and also has a great sense of design. There are very few people with both those qualities. Even if boards of existing companies consciously tried to pick CEOs with design sense, they wouldn't be able to, because you can't recognize it unless you have it. So the only way you could get another CEO like Steve Jobs would be the way he himself got the job: by founding the company.

jmdev 18y ago
Exactly. The company needs to be a start-up where the founder will create the device mainly for himself - as his dream device. That's where it starts.... I still think there's a huge revolution coming to consumer devices. Right now, everyone's focusing on phones - namely iPhone killers and they will fail, because the answer is different - and part of the business problem is having such a unique brand that might stand up against apple and that you can build on top of it - when you see people with their Macs open and see the glowing Apple logo - this is a powerful indicator and there has to me something more to this, new, powerful and very unique...and new technologies such as flexible OLEDS etc can be building blocks.. Good thing is to start with a niche target (say 1 million target users) If the new start-up focuses on creating a super hackers device - now they would be on to something...
- froo 18y ago
  One of the step I'd like to see is a phone manufacturer taking is what I think to be the next logical step in mobile technology, where your mobile device (phone) integrates with a desktop device (PC peripherals) more readily. What I mean is that your phone would become your device for surfing the web, working on documents, email etc - that you could sit into a dock of some form that would create the Personal Computer experience wherever you are and when you're done, you just take your phone with you. This would be enhanced with cloud storage and services obviously.

mixmax 18y ago

Yes, it's the way of the cool-cycle. 10 years ago everyone thought Bang & Olufsen (http://www.bang-olufsen.com/ http://www.bang-olufsen.com/) was the coolest stereo around. Everybody wanted to have one, and eventually the not-so-cool people got one too. Now the cool people would never be seen alive with a Bang & Olufsen stereo, because everyone has got it. Even their dad, by definition the most uncool person on the face of the earth, has one standing around in his un-cool living room. The reason something is cool is that trendsetters and opinion leaders endorse it. The reason they endorse it is that nobody else has it yet. (And of course that it has some merit of it's own, which Apple certainly has) Once it goes mainstream they will start looking for something the new thing. I see this happening to Apple right now, the opinion leaders are starting to move on because apple products are becoming mainstream. This is a major issue that Apple will have to address: if they continue their growth cycle they will become main-stream and cannot keep playing the cool-card in their marketing. If I knew what would replace them though, I wouldn't comment on HN, but sipping champagne on a tropical island with a russian supermodel and a good book.

nailer 18y ago
My wife and I live in a part of East London that's particularly cool, and went for martinis on the way home last night. I have an iPhone, she has a G1. We ran into an old friend of my wives, who commented on how cool the G1 was. The iPhone went uncommented, much in the same way a B&O stereo would.

satyajit 18y ago

I am sure its possible. Apple has the right combination of marketing, technology and design to make what they are today. Having said that, its a recent phenomena - several years back, we all thought SGI made the mean machines, where are they now? But I wish Apple comes up with something more killer product, diversify even more ... like you know, may be a car audio player. That will have the same wow factor of iPod/iTouch - somewhat internet enabled. So you can directly download/buy music into your car audio, and play online media ... and of course, it can double up as a iPhone and map device. Much of its out there already, but still its a scrambled market. Apple need to lead the way in usability. I'm sure Jobs can turn this into a multi-billion dollar franchise.

nailer 18y ago

Do you really think most consumers define Asus, Lenovo and Dell as 'not a Mac'? I think it's a deficiency of Vista's part (and age on XP's part) that pushes some people to Macs. But perhaps Windows 7 will stop pushing people away. I also doubt that most computer geeks either own Macs or define cool.