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I have a 2018 Model 3 with basic autopilot. I have an FSD question. Does FSD have different driving behaviors from basic autopilot? I'm not saying "capabilities

by rconti 1y ago

I have a 2018 Model 3 with basic autopilot. I have an FSD question. Does FSD have different driving behaviors from basic autopilot? I'm not saying "capabilities"; obviously it has more capabilities, but I mean the actual driving choices. I get that FSD (maybe) has/requires better hardware than my car. But what I hate about autopilot is all around basic driving: * Lane centering. It's extremely aggressive about lane centering, if you're in the right lane and an onramp joins from the right, the car aggressively drives to the right as soon as it perceives that the lane is wider. * Throttle/brake behavior. It waits too long to brake (despite having radar in my car, which can supposedly "see" more than one car ahead), and when it does apply the brakes it doesn't do so smoothly. It tips in somewhat aggressively, and you can feel the discrete steps in brake force application change. Ditto for acceleration when the traffic in front of me moves. There's no reason to think that any of this has anything to do with compute power, it all seems to be programming decisions that have been made for whatever reasons, so I can't see why FSD would be different. And yet, if FSD drives like this, I don't get how anyone can think it's good? On the other hand, I've also heard people say they think autopilot is good, which it's clearly not, so it makes me judge their driving skill rather than the different models. But perhaps there's some matrix of hardware revisions and software/decision models out there that I'm unaware of, that explains differences in driving behavior, if they exist?

josephcsible 1y ago
FSD doesn't drive like that. It's a completely different software stack, not just Autopilot with extra capabilities.
- rconti 1y ago
  It strikes me as incredibly weird to maintain two separate stacks, especially because FSD was "available" when I bought my car. In retrospect, though, I guess it wasn't actually available to use, just for purchase. So I suppose they had a parallel development process for FSD while building autopilot features? But since there is a hardware support overlap, it seems like at some point you'd migrate autopilot cars to the FSD software stack, with limitations added in via feature flags.
  - josephcsible 1y ago
    Autopilot basically hasn't gotten any new features since FSD came out. > But since there is a hardware support overlap, it seems like at some point you'd migrate autopilot cars to the FSD software stack, with limitations added in via feature flags. This is exactly what a lot of people speculate will happen soon.
cogman10 1y ago
All behaviors I've observed with FSD in my 2018 model 3. It's possible v14 is better. v12 was certainly better than v11 in all those regards. But there are still issues with the car making dumb lane choices in v12.
mschulkind 1y ago
Basic autopilot is unrelated to FSD these days. Every aspect is improved. Isn't there a trial you can try?
- cogman10 1y ago
  A 2018 vehicle is 2 major version behind on the FSD it can use. Tesla is on v14 and 2018 vehicles are stuck on v12. There's been rumors of a v14 lite coming out because tesla REALLY doesn't want to deal with the fact that they promised the 2018s could be fully autonomous.
  - rconti 1y ago
    Interesting, thanks. I haven't followed the hardware revisions on my car very closely; my father has a 2017 S, and I'm so used to thinking I have the "newer revision", since my MCU was newer than his, and he only recently upgraded it. I guess it should have been fairly obvious that a lot has changed in the past 7 years, but I've been hearing a nonstop trickle of autopilot/FSD news on these cars for so long that I guess I just assumed I had recent-enough support.
- rconti 1y ago
  Honestly, I just dismiss all of the promos they throw at me. Just yesterday I got an ad in the app "refer a friend and try FSD (supervised), and get $15!" So I opened up the app just now and I suppose I got my answer that proves my initial premise was incorrect -- I need a hardware upgrade for FSD. Womp womp. (That said, it still seems like the lane centering and brake/throttle behavior should have been easily fixed without a FSD hardware upgrade).

by rconti 1y ago

josephcsible 1y ago

FSD doesn't drive like that. It's a completely different software stack, not just Autopilot with extra capabilities.

rconti 1y ago
It strikes me as incredibly weird to maintain two separate stacks, especially because FSD was "available" when I bought my car. In retrospect, though, I guess it wasn't actually available to use, just for purchase. So I suppose they had a parallel development process for FSD while building autopilot features? But since there is a hardware support overlap, it seems like at some point you'd migrate autopilot cars to the FSD software stack, with limitations added in via feature flags.
- josephcsible 1y ago
  Autopilot basically hasn't gotten any new features since FSD came out. > But since there is a hardware support overlap, it seems like at some point you'd migrate autopilot cars to the FSD software stack, with limitations added in via feature flags. This is exactly what a lot of people speculate will happen soon.

cogman10 1y ago

All behaviors I've observed with FSD in my 2018 model 3. It's possible v14 is better. v12 was certainly better than v11 in all those regards. But there are still issues with the car making dumb lane choices in v12.

mschulkind 1y ago

Basic autopilot is unrelated to FSD these days. Every aspect is improved. Isn't there a trial you can try?

cogman10 1y ago
A 2018 vehicle is 2 major version behind on the FSD it can use. Tesla is on v14 and 2018 vehicles are stuck on v12. There's been rumors of a v14 lite coming out because tesla REALLY doesn't want to deal with the fact that they promised the 2018s could be fully autonomous.
- rconti 1y ago
  Interesting, thanks. I haven't followed the hardware revisions on my car very closely; my father has a 2017 S, and I'm so used to thinking I have the "newer revision", since my MCU was newer than his, and he only recently upgraded it. I guess it should have been fairly obvious that a lot has changed in the past 7 years, but I've been hearing a nonstop trickle of autopilot/FSD news on these cars for so long that I guess I just assumed I had recent-enough support.
rconti 1y ago
Honestly, I just dismiss all of the promos they throw at me. Just yesterday I got an ad in the app "refer a friend and try FSD (supervised), and get $15!" So I opened up the app just now and I suppose I got my answer that proves my initial premise was incorrect -- I need a hardware upgrade for FSD. Womp womp. (That said, it still seems like the lane centering and brake/throttle behavior should have been easily fixed without a FSD hardware upgrade).