8 ms·

6B Miles Driven

43 points by mensetmanusman 11mo ago

silexia 11mo ago
Pretty amazing to have driven six billion miles with 7x less major accidents. How many lives have been saved?
- amluto 11mo ago
  Tesla appears to have an impressive history of automatically disengaging FSD immediately before a collision, and this page is quite light on details of what they’re comparing to what, so I would take it with a large grain of salt.
  - jfoster 11mo ago
    For how many seconds after FSD is disengaged do accidents still get attributed to FSD?
    - deleted 11mo ago
      [deleted]
  - DarmokJalad1701 11mo ago
    > and this page is quite light on details of what they’re comparing to what In the page: "If FSD (Supervised) was active at any point within five seconds leading up to a collision event, Tesla considers the collision to have occurred with FSD (Supervised) engaged for purposes of calculating collision rates for the Vehicle Safety Report." They are pretty open about how the stats are reported.
    - tomrod 11mo ago
      Who chooses to turn off FSD? You really can't trust almost anything Musk says, he's proven this time and again, and Tesla will reflect that in its culture.
      - DarmokJalad1701 11mo ago
        > Who chooses to turn off FSD? The driver can at any time. And they do if it seems like it is going to do something stupid - which is getting rarer and rarer as time goes on. As a Level 2 system, the driver is always supposed to supervise the operation and stay alert. Musk has proven time and again that things his critics say are impossible/unrealistic ends up being achieved late. See anything from reusing rocket stages to the goals from Tesla's 2018 Compensation Plan[1] ("If Mr. Musk were somehow to increase the value of Tesla to $650 billion — a figure many experts would contend is laughably impossible and would make Tesla one of the five largest companies in the United States ...") Or the Arianespace guy saying SpaceX is "selling a dream". To quote: "I think a $5 million launch or a $15 million launch is a bit of a dream. Personally, I think reusability is a dream." [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/business/dealbook/tesla-elon-musk-pay.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/business/dealbook/tesla-e... [2] https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/06/some-european-launch-officials-still-have-their-heads-stuck-in-the-sand/ https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/06/some-european-launch-o...
  - sixQuarks 11mo ago
    True, we need to see the details of how they compute all this data. I do remember reading that they include crash data up to like a minute after FSD has been disengaged so these types of crashes should be included. Nevertheless, the latest version of FSD I can certainly believe is seven times less likely to get into an accident than the average driver. I experienced it daily.
- stldev 11mo ago
  Are they saving lives? The latest NHTSA FARS analysis I saw (iSeeCars, report is through 2022) shows Tesla at 5.6 fatalities per billion miles vs the 2.8 average.
cedws 11mo ago
Voyager 1 is 15B+ miles away. Kind of mind blowing.
- vkou 11mo ago
  Your mind will be really blown when you consider how far all people in the world walk in a week.
Kelteseth 11mo ago
[flagged]
- sixQuarks 11mo ago
  [flagged]
  - input_sh 11mo ago
    Or they have eyes and ears and have seen the footage.
    - sixQuarks 11mo ago
      You realize that almost every politician has done a similar type of pose right? So if there’s a picture or a video of your favorite politician doing that pose you’re automatically going to assume they are Nazi? Just a minimal knowledge of Musk‘s ties to Israel, and friendships with Netanyahu, Jared Kushner, and others you should realize that there’s no way he’s a Nazi or antisemitic. If anything, he is highly racist against Muslims.
      - Kelteseth 11mo ago
        There is a difference between waving and doing a Nazi salute. There is a difference between seeing a single frame of a wave out of context and a full video where he does it twice.
      - input_sh 11mo ago
        Yes, if I see a video (not a still) of someone doing a nazi salute two times in a row, I'm gonna assume they're a nazi. Absolutey no disagreements with you there. Doubly so if they also happen to tune into an AfD and a Tommy Robinson rally.
        sixQuarks 11mo ago
        Maybe we don’t have the same definition of what a nazi is, because Tommy Robinson is a huge Israeli schill, Elon musk is friends with Netanyahu, Jared kushner, and many other Zionists.
armen0 11mo ago
It would be more meaningful if we could see the data controlled for all the factors auto insurance is priced on (driver age, zip code, credit score, vehicle age, etc.) Does Tesla offer massively lower insurance premiums for drivers that do the majority of their driving with FSD?
- josephcsible 11mo ago
  > Does Tesla offer massively lower insurance premiums for drivers that do the majority of their driving with FSD? Yes: https://www.tesla.com/support/insurance/fsd-discount https://www.tesla.com/support/insurance/fsd-discount
  - armen0 11mo ago
    The discount is "up to 10%". I would call that a modest discount.
    - mlmonkey 11mo ago
      When I bought my Tesla, I had State Farm coverage for my existing (8 yo) car. State Farm quoted me a rate of $240/mo for switching insurance to the Tesla ( up from $130/mo ). This is in California, Bay Area. On a whim, I fired up the Tesla app and requested a quote for insurance through them. They quoted me $134/mo. I know, anecdata, size = 1. But I was surprised how low it was. I sent the coverage information to State Farm, to see if they would match it, but they just shrugged and said no, we can't match that.
      - iaw 11mo ago
        Have you had to file a claim with them yet? I go with State Farm not because I can get a cheaper rate but because for their price they provide all of the services I expect from my insurance company when I need them. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/Insurance/comments/1kji0bm/just_filed_a_complaint_against_tesla_insurance_to/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Insurance/comments/1kji0bm/just_fil...
DarmokJalad1701 11mo ago
I use it every single day and it is amazing! I have had my car for 6+ years now and it has only gotten better. Starting with "Navigate on Autopilot" when I originally got the car in 2019 which was pretty janky, it has only gotten better and better (with the rare regression in some cases). As of the last year or so, I don't even have to touch the steering wheel anymore!
- Keyframe 11mo ago
  I don't even have to touch the steering wheel anymore! Is that legal where you live?
  - hgomersall 11mo ago
    Even if it's legal, it's pretty stupid.
  - Workaccount2 11mo ago
    On ford and I believe Chevy's systems you can let go of the wheel, however their systems only work on pre-mapped roads, and those roads are 99% interstates and highways.
  - DarmokJalad1701 11mo ago
    It is legal. I still have to pay attention to the road. There is attention monitoring using the in-cabin camera which falls back to steering wheel torque detection if the cabin illumination is too low.
- tomrod 11mo ago
  Yeah, I'll be honest, that sounds awful. I like public transit and I like driving myself. Hybridizing with me in the drivers seat but not touching the wheel sounds annoying and tiresome.
  - doph 11mo ago
    I share this opinion. I've used FSD quite a bit during the free trial periods and each time come away with the sense that it's like driving with a newly licensed teenager at the wheel. If I have to be as alert and ready to avoid an accident as when I'm in command of the car, then this offers no improvement to the experience, just an added layer of stress trying to anticipate the actions of yet another actor in the environment.
efficax 11mo ago
Given how famously the tesla switches self driving off moments before an accident, these statistics are impossible to trust (but also because musk is famously a liar)
- josephcsible 11mo ago
  From the article: > If FSD (Supervised) was active at any point within five seconds leading up to a collision event, Tesla considers the collision to have occurred with FSD (Supervised) engaged for purposes of calculating collision rates for the Vehicle Safety Report.
  - cma 11mo ago
    If it takes you off the road into the grass with no traction at 80mph it could reasonably be 5 seconds before you hit a tree.
    - rconti 11mo ago
      Sure, it's very possible, and I'm sure has happened (an autopilot-instigated crash that happened >5sec after disengagement), but I do think 5 seconds is a reasonable threshold for this data, at the very least.
      - cma 11mo ago
        Another example scenario: FSD-caused spin out then hit by a car close to 5 seconds later. I've been close to this one before with a tire blow out but wasn't hit, but maybe you are right that these would be in the tail of the data.
the_arun 11mo ago
They do good marketing for sure. I would like to see same from Toyotas & Hondas of the world.
xnx 11mo ago
Good progress, but important to keep in mind that the number of unsupervised miles is zero.
- cma 11mo ago
  I think they made one delivery they claimed was unsupervised. It might have had lead cars and chase cars like early Waymo, and a custom build with HD mapping, I'm not sure.
  - xnx 11mo ago
    Yes, and likely also a live teleoperator ready to "grab the wheel".
kristofferR 11mo ago
So Tesla is charging $8000 to activate full safety software features in their vehicles? How is this not way more controversial than having to pay extra to activate features like heated steering wheels in other brands?
- josephcsible 11mo ago
  No, only FSD is $8000. All of the safety features are free in every Tesla.
  - kristofferR 11mo ago
    Didn't you read the link? According to Tesla FSD is a safety feature
  - boarsofcanada 11mo ago
    “Free” in what sense? After paying for a luxury product at premium prices, you’re getting exactly what you’re paying for, right?
    - josephcsible 11mo ago
      In the sense that they're all always included in the base price of the vehicle, and never in optional packages that cost extra.
    - mlmonkey 11mo ago
      A $40K car is no longer a "luxury product at premium prices". That's basically Honda Accord prices.
- cma 11mo ago
  It is supposed to include hardware upgrades too. Chevy and others upcharge for semi autonomous safety features too, but I'm not sure to what extent that is pure software or added hardware.
- Workaccount2 11mo ago
  You won't catch me defending Tesla often, but at least they actually do regular software updates and committed to needed hardware updates. Ford and Chevy otoh are doing exactly the self sabotaging greedy bullshit you expect. Chevy already told previous gen super cruise owners that they are no longer getting updates or more mapped areas, and ford just segregated their line into before and after 2025. 2025 cars getting the latest bluecruise version, earlier cars don't have the hardware (but you still need to pay annualy for that deprecated older version!) Ford also has never exteneded the mapped area in 4 years, and releases minor updates maybe once a year, where you will wait another 8 months to get the OTA. All while having the nerve to charge $500/yr.
rconti 11mo ago
I have a 2018 Model 3 with basic autopilot. I have an FSD question. Does FSD have different driving behaviors from basic autopilot? I'm not saying "capabilities"; obviously it has more capabilities, but I mean the actual driving choices. I get that FSD (maybe) has/requires better hardware than my car. But what I hate about autopilot is all around basic driving: * Lane centering. It's extremely aggressive about lane centering, if you're in the right lane and an onramp joins from the right, the car aggressively drives to the right as soon as it perceives that the lane is wider. * Throttle/brake behavior. It waits too long to brake (despite having radar in my car, which can supposedly "see" more than one car ahead), and when it does apply the brakes it doesn't do so smoothly. It tips in somewhat aggressively, and you can feel the discrete steps in brake force application change. Ditto for acceleration when the traffic in front of me moves. There's no reason to think that any of this has anything to do with compute power, it all seems to be programming decisions that have been made for whatever reasons, so I can't see why FSD would be different. And yet, if FSD drives like this, I don't get how anyone can think it's good? On the other hand, I've also heard people say they think autopilot is good, which it's clearly not, so it makes me judge their driving skill rather than the different models. But perhaps there's some matrix of hardware revisions and software/decision models out there that I'm unaware of, that explains differences in driving behavior, if they exist?
- josephcsible 11mo ago
  FSD doesn't drive like that. It's a completely different software stack, not just Autopilot with extra capabilities.
  - rconti 11mo ago
    It strikes me as incredibly weird to maintain two separate stacks, especially because FSD was "available" when I bought my car. In retrospect, though, I guess it wasn't actually available to use, just for purchase. So I suppose they had a parallel development process for FSD while building autopilot features? But since there is a hardware support overlap, it seems like at some point you'd migrate autopilot cars to the FSD software stack, with limitations added in via feature flags.
Workaccount2 11mo ago
Interventions Elon, interventions. Tesla really trying to engineer good will, and unsurprisingly only using their own data, which paves over things like "driver intervention prevented FSD from crashing in this instance" or "FSD disengaged 2s before crash, therefore driver error". Rather than play statistics games with self-reported dressed up supervised driving data to try and trick people into rolling the mortality dice with a robotaxi, just let the cars drive around empty. But he can't do that, because these cars are not FSD. Even worse, the government could easily mandate LIDAR for autonomous cars, and that would basically kill Tesla overnight.
- kentonv 11mo ago
  How do you meaningfully count interventions, though? I intervene on FSD all the time, but only due to differences of opinion, like I want to take a different route, or I think it's being too cautious, or I want to change lanes earlier / later than it decided to. In a year of use I can't remember a time when I intervened to prevent an accident. So if you just looked at number of interventions in my data, it doesn't really tell you anything except that I'm too much of a control freak to just let it do its thing...
  - Workaccount2 11mo ago
    Tesla has the data from Austin, they closely track when the supervisor pulls the e-stop. But that data, the most critical data, is unsurprisingly absent here. The dude has got six weeks to get those supervisors out of the car, and he isn't even giving the most critical data around them. Not a good sign. Elon will probably find a near closed loop around an empty development in Austin, put two robotaxis there without a driver, and let people do a loop. Tesla contractors will walk the area an stop people from crossing when a robotaxi is near. Then he will proclaim there are driverless taxis in Austin and that they will expand to the rest of the US by mid 2026, and then talk about how actually optimus robots in 2027 are the real thing to focus on.
nixass 11mo ago
And how many miles have other manufacturers done with their own advanced adaptive cruise control systems?
jeffbee 11mo ago
If we take this at face value then the only remaining explanation for why the insurance industry reports that Tesla drivers have more accidents than drivers of any other brand is that Tesla drivers are a self-selected group of extremely bad drivers, which is itself notable.
iaw 11mo ago
7x fewer major and minor collisions!!!!* * Compared to the estimated U.S. average. They have a huge store of data on accidents in teslas per mile driven. Why don't they compare their actual data on accidents? Well, they would, but it probably is worse with FSD.
- jeffbee 11mo ago
  For the claims they are making the only peer is Waymo. If they want to put themselves in a peer group that only has driver assistance systems, then the comparison should be to other similarly-priced and new vehicles, no U.S. average 12-year-old Corollas. Anyway what is most amusing about this promotional material is that from the very first frame it inadvertently highlights how much worse it is than Waymo. The "Avoiding T-bones" scenario only seems like the car came out of nowhere because Tesla's camera system is so limited. Waymo would have seen it coming a mile away.
  - rconti 11mo ago
    I think the parent is suggesting that they could compare the FSD accident rate to human-driven Teslas that they also have data on.
jhot 11mo ago
But how many of those miles are spent hanging out in the left lane of a highway while other drivers, having to pass on the right, send death stares to the person in the passenger seat?
- kentonv 11mo ago
  In my experience FSD doesn't like staying in the left lane. It'll use it to pass but then gets out of it as soon as it can. Often too soon as it just has to shift left again to pass the next car...
prmoustache 11mo ago
Marketing page with data from the brand. Conclusion: those numbers aren't worth anything, unless they come from independant organism they are just advertising and no more believable than old cigarettes ads.
paxys 11mo ago
Tesla Autopilot/FSD is by all accounts an impressive piece of tech, and the stats about accident prevention are pretty convincing. The problem IMO is that Tesla & Musk have muddled the conversation so much over the years and made so many promises that it is impossible for the average consumer to know what is or isn't real at this point. Do I need to have my hands on the steering wheel or is the car actually self driving? Can my Tesla drop me off where I need to be and go park itself? And then can I summon it when I'm done? Can I turn my Tesla into a taxi that picks up other people and earns me money? Is it even possible for a Tesla to drive itself unsupervised? All of these have been promised over and over again for the past decade, and at this point it is impossible for anyone to set the right expectations for themselves.
- josephcsible 11mo ago
  Those questions all have very clear answers. > Do I need to have my hands on the steering wheel or is the car actually self driving? You don't need to have your hands on the steering wheel, but you do need to be paying attention to the road. > Can my Tesla drop me off where I need to be and go park itself? Not yet. > And then can I summon it when I'm done? Yes. > Can I turn my Tesla into a taxi that picks up other people and earns me money? Not yet. > Is it even possible for a Tesla to drive itself unsupervised? They can (e.g., https://youtu.be/BO1XXRwp3mc https://youtu.be/BO1XXRwp3mc), but it's not enabled for consumers yet.
pragmatic 11mo ago
Doesn't matter I and almost everyone in my circle won't touch a Tesla. The cybertruck was a huge boondoggle and only doctors and true beleivers bought them but over time I don't see them in the parking lot when I see the doctors in the building hmmm. Also Elon "skipping around like a dipshit" (Tim Waltz) and now claiming he's worth a trillion dollars. By his own admission his identity is entertwined with Tesla's. He poisened the brand for me and many others.
bgwalter 11mo ago
That is old news. Today we learn that Optimus will be a world class surgeon and "democratize" medical care, that Grok 5 has a 10% chance of achieving AGI, that Grokipedia will be named Encyclopedia Galactica and that Elon will put 100GW of solar powered "AI" satellites into orbit. https://xcancel.com/XFreeze/status/1989453462770237688#m https://xcancel.com/XFreeze/status/1989453462770237688#m https://xcancel.com/XFreeze/status/1989453462770237688#m https://xcancel.com/XFreeze/status/1989453462770237688#m
two_handfuls 11mo ago
The problem with this is the source. Tesla lies constantly and it has from the very first FSD demo [1, 2] if not earlier. 1: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-autopilot-staged-engineer-says-company-faked-full-autopilot/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-autopilot-staged-engineer... 2: https://www.cnn.com/2025/08/21/business/tesla-nhtsa-self-driving-investigation https://www.cnn.com/2025/08/21/business/tesla-nhtsa-self-dri...
verdverm 11mo ago
Waymo's Safety page for comparison https://waymo.com/safety/impact/ https://waymo.com/safety/impact/
bigtex 11mo ago
Don't forget he promised robotaxis in 2019: “Next year for sure, we will have over a million robotaxis on the road,” said Musk on October 21, 2019. “The fleet wakes up with an over-the-air update. That’s all it takes.” https://www.thedrive.com/news/38129/elon-musk-promised-1-million-tesla-robotaxis-by-the-end-of-2020-where-are-they https://www.thedrive.com/news/38129/elon-musk-promised-1-mil...
- josephcsible 11mo ago
  Yes, we all know that when Elon makes promises about the future, he's always late delivering on them. But this is about the capabilities of something that's already here, and those kind of claims are way more reliable.
  - bigtex 11mo ago
    What makes you trust the data provided by Tesla?

6B Miles Driven

43 points by mensetmanusman 11mo ago

silexia 11mo ago

Pretty amazing to have driven six billion miles with 7x less major accidents. How many lives have been saved?

amluto 11mo ago
Tesla appears to have an impressive history of automatically disengaging FSD immediately before a collision, and this page is quite light on details of what they’re comparing to what, so I would take it with a large grain of salt.
- jfoster 11mo ago
  For how many seconds after FSD is disengaged do accidents still get attributed to FSD?
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
- DarmokJalad1701 11mo ago
  > and this page is quite light on details of what they’re comparing to what In the page: "If FSD (Supervised) was active at any point within five seconds leading up to a collision event, Tesla considers the collision to have occurred with FSD (Supervised) engaged for purposes of calculating collision rates for the Vehicle Safety Report." They are pretty open about how the stats are reported.
  - tomrod 11mo ago
    Who chooses to turn off FSD? You really can't trust almost anything Musk says, he's proven this time and again, and Tesla will reflect that in its culture.
    - DarmokJalad1701 11mo ago
      > Who chooses to turn off FSD? The driver can at any time. And they do if it seems like it is going to do something stupid - which is getting rarer and rarer as time goes on. As a Level 2 system, the driver is always supposed to supervise the operation and stay alert. Musk has proven time and again that things his critics say are impossible/unrealistic ends up being achieved late. See anything from reusing rocket stages to the goals from Tesla's 2018 Compensation Plan[1] ("If Mr. Musk were somehow to increase the value of Tesla to $650 billion — a figure many experts would contend is laughably impossible and would make Tesla one of the five largest companies in the United States ...") Or the Arianespace guy saying SpaceX is "selling a dream". To quote: "I think a $5 million launch or a $15 million launch is a bit of a dream. Personally, I think reusability is a dream." [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/business/dealbook/tesla-elon-musk-pay.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/business/dealbook/tesla-e... [2] https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/06/some-european-launch-officials-still-have-their-heads-stuck-in-the-sand/ https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/06/some-european-launch-o...
- sixQuarks 11mo ago
  True, we need to see the details of how they compute all this data. I do remember reading that they include crash data up to like a minute after FSD has been disengaged so these types of crashes should be included. Nevertheless, the latest version of FSD I can certainly believe is seven times less likely to get into an accident than the average driver. I experienced it daily.
stldev 11mo ago
Are they saving lives? The latest NHTSA FARS analysis I saw (iSeeCars, report is through 2022) shows Tesla at 5.6 fatalities per billion miles vs the 2.8 average.

cedws 11mo ago

Voyager 1 is 15B+ miles away. Kind of mind blowing.

vkou 11mo ago
Your mind will be really blown when you consider how far all people in the world walk in a week.

Kelteseth 11mo ago

[flagged]

sixQuarks 11mo ago
[flagged]
- input_sh 11mo ago
  Or they have eyes and ears and have seen the footage.
  - sixQuarks 11mo ago
    You realize that almost every politician has done a similar type of pose right? So if there’s a picture or a video of your favorite politician doing that pose you’re automatically going to assume they are Nazi? Just a minimal knowledge of Musk‘s ties to Israel, and friendships with Netanyahu, Jared Kushner, and others you should realize that there’s no way he’s a Nazi or antisemitic. If anything, he is highly racist against Muslims.
    - Kelteseth 11mo ago
      There is a difference between waving and doing a Nazi salute. There is a difference between seeing a single frame of a wave out of context and a full video where he does it twice.
    - input_sh 11mo ago
      Yes, if I see a video (not a still) of someone doing a nazi salute two times in a row, I'm gonna assume they're a nazi. Absolutey no disagreements with you there. Doubly so if they also happen to tune into an AfD and a Tommy Robinson rally.
      - sixQuarks 11mo ago
        Maybe we don’t have the same definition of what a nazi is, because Tommy Robinson is a huge Israeli schill, Elon musk is friends with Netanyahu, Jared kushner, and many other Zionists.

armen0 11mo ago

It would be more meaningful if we could see the data controlled for all the factors auto insurance is priced on (driver age, zip code, credit score, vehicle age, etc.) Does Tesla offer massively lower insurance premiums for drivers that do the majority of their driving with FSD?

josephcsible 11mo ago
> Does Tesla offer massively lower insurance premiums for drivers that do the majority of their driving with FSD? Yes: https://www.tesla.com/support/insurance/fsd-discount https://www.tesla.com/support/insurance/fsd-discount
- armen0 11mo ago
  The discount is "up to 10%". I would call that a modest discount.
  - mlmonkey 11mo ago
    When I bought my Tesla, I had State Farm coverage for my existing (8 yo) car. State Farm quoted me a rate of $240/mo for switching insurance to the Tesla ( up from $130/mo ). This is in California, Bay Area. On a whim, I fired up the Tesla app and requested a quote for insurance through them. They quoted me $134/mo. I know, anecdata, size = 1. But I was surprised how low it was. I sent the coverage information to State Farm, to see if they would match it, but they just shrugged and said no, we can't match that.
    - iaw 11mo ago
      Have you had to file a claim with them yet? I go with State Farm not because I can get a cheaper rate but because for their price they provide all of the services I expect from my insurance company when I need them. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/Insurance/comments/1kji0bm/just_filed_a_complaint_against_tesla_insurance_to/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Insurance/comments/1kji0bm/just_fil...

DarmokJalad1701 11mo ago

I use it every single day and it is amazing! I have had my car for 6+ years now and it has only gotten better. Starting with "Navigate on Autopilot" when I originally got the car in 2019 which was pretty janky, it has only gotten better and better (with the rare regression in some cases). As of the last year or so, I don't even have to touch the steering wheel anymore!

Keyframe 11mo ago
I don't even have to touch the steering wheel anymore! Is that legal where you live?
- hgomersall 11mo ago
  Even if it's legal, it's pretty stupid.
- Workaccount2 11mo ago
  On ford and I believe Chevy's systems you can let go of the wheel, however their systems only work on pre-mapped roads, and those roads are 99% interstates and highways.
- DarmokJalad1701 11mo ago
  It is legal. I still have to pay attention to the road. There is attention monitoring using the in-cabin camera which falls back to steering wheel torque detection if the cabin illumination is too low.
tomrod 11mo ago
Yeah, I'll be honest, that sounds awful. I like public transit and I like driving myself. Hybridizing with me in the drivers seat but not touching the wheel sounds annoying and tiresome.
- doph 11mo ago
  I share this opinion. I've used FSD quite a bit during the free trial periods and each time come away with the sense that it's like driving with a newly licensed teenager at the wheel. If I have to be as alert and ready to avoid an accident as when I'm in command of the car, then this offers no improvement to the experience, just an added layer of stress trying to anticipate the actions of yet another actor in the environment.

efficax 11mo ago

Given how famously the tesla switches self driving off moments before an accident, these statistics are impossible to trust (but also because musk is famously a liar)

josephcsible 11mo ago
From the article: > If FSD (Supervised) was active at any point within five seconds leading up to a collision event, Tesla considers the collision to have occurred with FSD (Supervised) engaged for purposes of calculating collision rates for the Vehicle Safety Report.
- cma 11mo ago
  If it takes you off the road into the grass with no traction at 80mph it could reasonably be 5 seconds before you hit a tree.
  - rconti 11mo ago
    Sure, it's very possible, and I'm sure has happened (an autopilot-instigated crash that happened >5sec after disengagement), but I do think 5 seconds is a reasonable threshold for this data, at the very least.
    - cma 11mo ago
      Another example scenario: FSD-caused spin out then hit by a car close to 5 seconds later. I've been close to this one before with a tire blow out but wasn't hit, but maybe you are right that these would be in the tail of the data.

the_arun 11mo ago

They do good marketing for sure. I would like to see same from Toyotas & Hondas of the world.

xnx 11mo ago

Good progress, but important to keep in mind that the number of unsupervised miles is zero.

cma 11mo ago
I think they made one delivery they claimed was unsupervised. It might have had lead cars and chase cars like early Waymo, and a custom build with HD mapping, I'm not sure.
- xnx 11mo ago
  Yes, and likely also a live teleoperator ready to "grab the wheel".

kristofferR 11mo ago

So Tesla is charging $8000 to activate full safety software features in their vehicles? How is this not way more controversial than having to pay extra to activate features like heated steering wheels in other brands?

josephcsible 11mo ago
No, only FSD is $8000. All of the safety features are free in every Tesla.
- kristofferR 11mo ago
  Didn't you read the link? According to Tesla FSD is a safety feature
- boarsofcanada 11mo ago
  “Free” in what sense? After paying for a luxury product at premium prices, you’re getting exactly what you’re paying for, right?
  - josephcsible 11mo ago
    In the sense that they're all always included in the base price of the vehicle, and never in optional packages that cost extra.
  - mlmonkey 11mo ago
    A $40K car is no longer a "luxury product at premium prices". That's basically Honda Accord prices.
cma 11mo ago
It is supposed to include hardware upgrades too. Chevy and others upcharge for semi autonomous safety features too, but I'm not sure to what extent that is pure software or added hardware.
Workaccount2 11mo ago
You won't catch me defending Tesla often, but at least they actually do regular software updates and committed to needed hardware updates. Ford and Chevy otoh are doing exactly the self sabotaging greedy bullshit you expect. Chevy already told previous gen super cruise owners that they are no longer getting updates or more mapped areas, and ford just segregated their line into before and after 2025. 2025 cars getting the latest bluecruise version, earlier cars don't have the hardware (but you still need to pay annualy for that deprecated older version!) Ford also has never exteneded the mapped area in 4 years, and releases minor updates maybe once a year, where you will wait another 8 months to get the OTA. All while having the nerve to charge $500/yr.

rconti 11mo ago

I have a 2018 Model 3 with basic autopilot. I have an FSD question. Does FSD have different driving behaviors from basic autopilot? I'm not saying "capabilities"; obviously it has more capabilities, but I mean the actual driving choices. I get that FSD (maybe) has/requires better hardware than my car. But what I hate about autopilot is all around basic driving: * Lane centering. It's extremely aggressive about lane centering, if you're in the right lane and an onramp joins from the right, the car aggressively drives to the right as soon as it perceives that the lane is wider. * Throttle/brake behavior. It waits too long to brake (despite having radar in my car, which can supposedly "see" more than one car ahead), and when it does apply the brakes it doesn't do so smoothly. It tips in somewhat aggressively, and you can feel the discrete steps in brake force application change. Ditto for acceleration when the traffic in front of me moves. There's no reason to think that any of this has anything to do with compute power, it all seems to be programming decisions that have been made for whatever reasons, so I can't see why FSD would be different. And yet, if FSD drives like this, I don't get how anyone can think it's good? On the other hand, I've also heard people say they think autopilot is good, which it's clearly not, so it makes me judge their driving skill rather than the different models. But perhaps there's some matrix of hardware revisions and software/decision models out there that I'm unaware of, that explains differences in driving behavior, if they exist?

josephcsible 11mo ago
FSD doesn't drive like that. It's a completely different software stack, not just Autopilot with extra capabilities.
- rconti 11mo ago
  It strikes me as incredibly weird to maintain two separate stacks, especially because FSD was "available" when I bought my car. In retrospect, though, I guess it wasn't actually available to use, just for purchase. So I suppose they had a parallel development process for FSD while building autopilot features? But since there is a hardware support overlap, it seems like at some point you'd migrate autopilot cars to the FSD software stack, with limitations added in via feature flags.

Workaccount2 11mo ago

Interventions Elon, interventions. Tesla really trying to engineer good will, and unsurprisingly only using their own data, which paves over things like "driver intervention prevented FSD from crashing in this instance" or "FSD disengaged 2s before crash, therefore driver error". Rather than play statistics games with self-reported dressed up supervised driving data to try and trick people into rolling the mortality dice with a robotaxi, just let the cars drive around empty. But he can't do that, because these cars are not FSD. Even worse, the government could easily mandate LIDAR for autonomous cars, and that would basically kill Tesla overnight.

kentonv 11mo ago
How do you meaningfully count interventions, though? I intervene on FSD all the time, but only due to differences of opinion, like I want to take a different route, or I think it's being too cautious, or I want to change lanes earlier / later than it decided to. In a year of use I can't remember a time when I intervened to prevent an accident. So if you just looked at number of interventions in my data, it doesn't really tell you anything except that I'm too much of a control freak to just let it do its thing...
- Workaccount2 11mo ago
  Tesla has the data from Austin, they closely track when the supervisor pulls the e-stop. But that data, the most critical data, is unsurprisingly absent here. The dude has got six weeks to get those supervisors out of the car, and he isn't even giving the most critical data around them. Not a good sign. Elon will probably find a near closed loop around an empty development in Austin, put two robotaxis there without a driver, and let people do a loop. Tesla contractors will walk the area an stop people from crossing when a robotaxi is near. Then he will proclaim there are driverless taxis in Austin and that they will expand to the rest of the US by mid 2026, and then talk about how actually optimus robots in 2027 are the real thing to focus on.

nixass 11mo ago

And how many miles have other manufacturers done with their own advanced adaptive cruise control systems?

jeffbee 11mo ago

If we take this at face value then the only remaining explanation for why the insurance industry reports that Tesla drivers have more accidents than drivers of any other brand is that Tesla drivers are a self-selected group of extremely bad drivers, which is itself notable.

iaw 11mo ago

7x fewer major and minor collisions!!!!* * Compared to the estimated U.S. average. They have a huge store of data on accidents in teslas per mile driven. Why don't they compare their actual data on accidents? Well, they would, but it probably is worse with FSD.

jeffbee 11mo ago
For the claims they are making the only peer is Waymo. If they want to put themselves in a peer group that only has driver assistance systems, then the comparison should be to other similarly-priced and new vehicles, no U.S. average 12-year-old Corollas. Anyway what is most amusing about this promotional material is that from the very first frame it inadvertently highlights how much worse it is than Waymo. The "Avoiding T-bones" scenario only seems like the car came out of nowhere because Tesla's camera system is so limited. Waymo would have seen it coming a mile away.
- rconti 11mo ago
  I think the parent is suggesting that they could compare the FSD accident rate to human-driven Teslas that they also have data on.

jhot 11mo ago

But how many of those miles are spent hanging out in the left lane of a highway while other drivers, having to pass on the right, send death stares to the person in the passenger seat?

kentonv 11mo ago
In my experience FSD doesn't like staying in the left lane. It'll use it to pass but then gets out of it as soon as it can. Often too soon as it just has to shift left again to pass the next car...

prmoustache 11mo ago

Marketing page with data from the brand. Conclusion: those numbers aren't worth anything, unless they come from independant organism they are just advertising and no more believable than old cigarettes ads.

paxys 11mo ago

Tesla Autopilot/FSD is by all accounts an impressive piece of tech, and the stats about accident prevention are pretty convincing. The problem IMO is that Tesla & Musk have muddled the conversation so much over the years and made so many promises that it is impossible for the average consumer to know what is or isn't real at this point. Do I need to have my hands on the steering wheel or is the car actually self driving? Can my Tesla drop me off where I need to be and go park itself? And then can I summon it when I'm done? Can I turn my Tesla into a taxi that picks up other people and earns me money? Is it even possible for a Tesla to drive itself unsupervised? All of these have been promised over and over again for the past decade, and at this point it is impossible for anyone to set the right expectations for themselves.

josephcsible 11mo ago
Those questions all have very clear answers. > Do I need to have my hands on the steering wheel or is the car actually self driving? You don't need to have your hands on the steering wheel, but you do need to be paying attention to the road. > Can my Tesla drop me off where I need to be and go park itself? Not yet. > And then can I summon it when I'm done? Yes. > Can I turn my Tesla into a taxi that picks up other people and earns me money? Not yet. > Is it even possible for a Tesla to drive itself unsupervised? They can (e.g., https://youtu.be/BO1XXRwp3mc https://youtu.be/BO1XXRwp3mc), but it's not enabled for consumers yet.

pragmatic 11mo ago

Doesn't matter I and almost everyone in my circle won't touch a Tesla. The cybertruck was a huge boondoggle and only doctors and true beleivers bought them but over time I don't see them in the parking lot when I see the doctors in the building hmmm. Also Elon "skipping around like a dipshit" (Tim Waltz) and now claiming he's worth a trillion dollars. By his own admission his identity is entertwined with Tesla's. He poisened the brand for me and many others.

bgwalter 11mo ago

That is old news. Today we learn that Optimus will be a world class surgeon and "democratize" medical care, that Grok 5 has a 10% chance of achieving AGI, that Grokipedia will be named Encyclopedia Galactica and that Elon will put 100GW of solar powered "AI" satellites into orbit. https://xcancel.com/XFreeze/status/1989453462770237688#m https://xcancel.com/XFreeze/status/1989453462770237688#m https://xcancel.com/XFreeze/status/1989453462770237688#m https://xcancel.com/XFreeze/status/1989453462770237688#m

two_handfuls 11mo ago

The problem with this is the source. Tesla lies constantly and it has from the very first FSD demo [1, 2] if not earlier. 1: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-autopilot-staged-engineer-says-company-faked-full-autopilot/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-autopilot-staged-engineer... 2: https://www.cnn.com/2025/08/21/business/tesla-nhtsa-self-driving-investigation https://www.cnn.com/2025/08/21/business/tesla-nhtsa-self-dri...

verdverm 11mo ago

Waymo's Safety page for comparison https://waymo.com/safety/impact/ https://waymo.com/safety/impact/

bigtex 11mo ago

Don't forget he promised robotaxis in 2019: “Next year for sure, we will have over a million robotaxis on the road,” said Musk on October 21, 2019. “The fleet wakes up with an over-the-air update. That’s all it takes.” https://www.thedrive.com/news/38129/elon-musk-promised-1-million-tesla-robotaxis-by-the-end-of-2020-where-are-they https://www.thedrive.com/news/38129/elon-musk-promised-1-mil...

josephcsible 11mo ago
Yes, we all know that when Elon makes promises about the future, he's always late delivering on them. But this is about the capabilities of something that's already here, and those kind of claims are way more reliable.
- bigtex 11mo ago
  What makes you trust the data provided by Tesla?