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Because it works. I've to look no further than myself. It's changed me significantly for the better in this area of life. The term PUA has a negative associati
by badclient 14y ago
Because it works. I've to look no further than myself. It's changed me significantly for the better in this area of life.
The term PUA has a negative association in the mainstream because there is a perception it uses jedi mind tricks to bed the girl. This is not helped by myriad of products aimed at newbies that promise overnight success. On average though, most decent PUAs become decent after lots of practice to become less shy and more charming. Many many of them are nerds(my wing is a RoR programmer and also very good with the ladies).
- derleth 14y ago> The term PUA has a negative association in the mainstream because there is a perception it uses jedi mind tricks to bed the girl. Maybe among some people. The rest of us look at crap like 'negging' and see that the whole thing's a tactic to get the emotionally damaged to sleep with the socially stunted.
- badclient 14y agoYou are welcome to judge from behind the monitor but if you actually went out and looked at reality, you'd realize there is nothing magical about negs and that negs themselves won't get you a girl--whether emotionally damaged or not. It could in certain cases help you increase attraction a wee bit. In that sense, it isn't much different than tips we read about pitching to VCs etc.
- derleth 14y ago> In that sense, it isn't much different than tips we read about pitching to VCs etc. Except for the moral aspect, which PUAs seem dead-set on ignoring.
- badclient 14y agoThat's a fair point. To that I would say once you lift the curtains and take a peek, you will find many different school of thoughts within this. Some of the most famous personalities and ideas about PUAs in the mainstream isn't even very popular inside the PUA community. On the other hand, there are entire "systems" that are premised on being dead honest about your intention.
- evan_ 14y agoI guess the thing that people don't like about it is the part where you insult people you don't know for selfish reasons? I mean maybe that's part of it?
- Jd 14y agoThis is to a certain extent based on a misconception. First, 'negging' is simply one tactic in the arsenal of the PUA, although in the present circulation it receives a good deal of prominence due to its counter-intuitive nature and the legions of doltish would-be PUAs that run around 'negging' people since they don't have any other social skills. Sadly, here, as elsewhere, the audience which is most likely to get into the "Game" most completely are those that have the lowest prospects to start with, and a few tricks are not going to change someone with no social skills into Prince Charming in a matter of sessions. That said, although I have more or less agreed with you with regards to the 'social stunted' part (as a generalization) 'negging' is not particularly targeted at the emotionally damaged who respond to being put down. It is a tactic charged at the supremely confident, attractive girl who is used to blowing off guys who approach her. The 'neg' is, consequently, first and foremost, an expression of confidence by the person who is approaching her. He is not approaching her as a fawning wretch, but someone who thinks of himself as her equal or even superior. That this can be a turn on of sorts, esp. when contrasted with the usual types of social interaction encountered by very attractive women at bars and clubs, should be obvious. That the usual types of social interaction at bars and clubs are far from ideal or normative is hopefully also understood.
- monkeypizza 14y agoNegging is like that story of a visitor to the Apple campus who saw Steve Jobs walking by and didn't recognize him, and called out "hey, can you take a picture for me?" That initial shock at the lack of deference allowed that person to have more of an interaction than most people got.
- baddox 14y agoAre emotionally damaged people not supposed to have sex?
- derleth 14y agoYou aren't supposed to take advantage of their damage to have sex with them.
- baddox 14y agoIf someone consents, it presumably means they deem the exchange to be mutually beneficial, so I don't know how you could determine some cases to be "taking advantage."
- andrewflnr 14y agoIf you take advantage of someone's ignorance to sell them snake oil, they may think (for a while) that the exchange was mutually beneficial, but you're still evil.
- badclient 14y agoSo, what precisely is the snake oil as it relates to PUAs meeting women?
- andrewflnr 14y agoThat giving the PUA what they want will make them happier.
- badclient 14y agoWhat specifically do you find evil?
- technolem 14y agoYou. To be more specific if snake oil really did solve the world's problems snake oil salesmen would still be snake oil salesmen. They are trying to get something by convincing others of a thing whether or not it is true.
- niete 14y agoThat is a cute talking point, but does it have much to do with reality? Not really. In pick up artistry, the goal is to be and act like a natural. Sometimes there are a lot of silly hoops on the way and it does not work for everyone, but it does work in the end.
- majormajor 14y agoFrom where I'm standing the negative association is largely due to the "pick up" part.
- badclient 14y agoMakes sense. A lot of new gen PUAs who offer coaching call themselves a dating coach to dodge the pick up association.
- zerostar07 14y agoI see. A lot of women are going to be angry when I tell them they've been reverse engineered. Kudos.
- Aloisius 14y agoPick up artists have a negative association because they are a group of insecure people putting up a fake facade so they can focus singularly on having sex with as many women as possible. Worse is pickup artists who actually keep score of their conquests. Ugh. If I'm trying to come up with a list of groups of people I would never want to know, let alone hang out with, pickup artists would be near the top of the list.
- badclient 14y agoPick up artists have a negative association because they are a group of insecure people putting up a fake facade so they can focus singularly on having sex with as many women as possible. You've described one type of pick up artists. Also, PUAs are as insecure and put up as much of a fascade as women in high-heels with pretty make up to hide their wrinkles.
- jpxxx 14y agoAaaand there's the misogyny.
- badclient 14y agoAnd there's another soul who doesn't grasp the definition of misogyny.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- jpxxx 14y agoEdit: fuck it, lets play. Tell me what's wonderful about women.
- badclient 14y agoGeez where do I start? I'm not sure this is an appropriate medium to share arbitrary personal notes about myself. I will say that I've done some coaching and it isn't uncommon to run into men bitter about women due to their past break ups. The very first thing I teach em is its not healthy to do this if you hate women; not to mention you will probably have a better chance if you appreciated them(even their flaws) than walk up to one with years of built up bitterness.
- SCdF 14y agoSo I don't know about other people but I find it creepy because the goal seems to be to shag as many chicks as possible. If the goal was to have a meaningful lasting relationship with another human being then PUAs wouldn't exist, because they would have all retired from 'the game' with their SOs before they built up internet 'cred'.
- badclient 14y agoThe big goal for most guys is to have meaningful relationships. The local goal(steps to get to the big goal) changes week to week or month to month etc. For example, when I started my local goal was only to be able to not be shy and to be able to hold a conversation with a lady I am interested in. Today, my goal is to be the best boyfriend to my girlfriend. If/when we break up, this goal will likely change. So even if your goal is to find the SO ultimately, there are steps to getting there. That said, I know it isn't for me but I don't see much wrong if your only intention is to have one night stands. It's not like you are dragging out a girl forcefully to do so; more often you are end up with a girl with also a similar goal to yours(vast majority of girls aren't hanging out in a bar looking for their SO...in fact they will find that idea creepy).
- zerostar07 14y agoIt's hypocritical that PUA tactics are socially commendable or envious, but if one does the same with a number of prostitutes it's condemnable.
- illuminate 14y ago"PUA tactics are socially commendable or envious" I wasn't aware that they were, to any gender.
- erikpukinskis 14y agoWhat I don't like about PUA is that the general philosophy seems to be "try over and over to do things to women. It doesn't matter that most of them don't want it, because some will. Keep pushing until you get what you want." This philosophy is widely held outside of PUA culture, and I hate it everywhere, but PUA culture seems to really put this idea into overdrive. What is glossed over by the PUA community, is that the practice leaves a wake of doing things to women over and over that they don't want. It's written off, like "you win some you lose some!" but you just made someone's day a little worse, and caused the general animosity between men and women to be turned up a notch. The reason a man can't just say hello to a woman and have it just be a friendly hello is because of PUAs and others who follow this principle. Women walk around totally shell shocked because of the constant "numbers game" onslaught of men who are trying to "pick them up" and I personally think it needs to stop. There are respectful and disrespectful channels for meeting new people to date, and PUA literature drives people into the disrespectful ones. That they "work" doesn't cover up the collateral damage.
- lmm 14y agoReading your post I see an awful lot in common with the startup philosophy that so many on HN admire so much.
- badclient 14y agobut you just made someone's day a little worse That just made me chuckle considering I know I've made so many women's day, even ones that have turned me down. The first words out of my mouth is a genuine compliment. For vast majority of women, it's a flattering and memorable thing. It is why I've had girls blog about or post to criagslist missed connections about the experience of being hit on by me. It's why I'll regularly get girls tell me something to the tune of "wow I needed that" or "omg are you serious?". Your perception that women dislike being hit on is a common armchair belief albeit not grounded in reality. Rest assured, I make way more girls' day than most other guys. I'll note that I don't hit on girls in bars and clubs. I do so on the street almost exclusively and vast majority of girls I meet have never been approached while walking on the street. That debunks your point that women are tired of being hit on. The reason a man can't just say hello to a woman and have it just be a friendly hello is because of PUAs and others who follow this principle. You have it the other way around. The reason you can't just say a friendly hello to a woman is because most men beat around the bush, pretend they just wanna be friends etc. when in reality they have other intentions. Compare this to a guy who walks up to a stranger, tells her he may like her and in a straightforward manner asks her out. So, to answer your question, girls are suspicious of mere hellos because of past experience of guys trying to be friends when really they had a romantic interest. These guys are probably not PUAs because almost all PUA styles emphasize getting to the point relatively quickly.
- arrrg 14y agoOh, wow. PUA scum on HN. Now I have seen everything. Fuck off.