3 ms·

It's convenient that your knowledge of what "started" begins on October 7th and all the events of history prior since 1948 never happened, or you just don't car

by hashim 11mo ago

It's convenient that your knowledge of what "started" begins on October 7th and all the events of history prior since 1948 never happened, or you just don't care they did. Average Westerner knowledge of Western history, I understand. Yes, they have consistently toppled governments, meddled in the affairs of other countries, and enabled and funded colonalism and imperialism wherever they went. Although the good news is that Israel is and will be the last true Western colonial state. Also, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just forgot the wars they themselves started, like Iraq over the lie that was WMD and the small matter of 500,000 dead Iraqis - I can assure you the Western governments involved have not condemned it, but they did give Blair a Nobel Peace Prize, so that's something. Your last sentence is laughable and too historically ignorant to bother responding to, but since its AI-generated I thankfully don't need to give it that courtesy.

int_19h 11mo ago
> Although the good news is that Israel is and will be the last true Western colonial state. What do you think Russia is?
- hashim 11mo ago
  You think Russia is a Western power and ally?
  - int_19h 11mo ago
    I'm Russian myself, and I think Russia is a Western (white European) colonial empire, and the largest one in terms of the sheer number of peoples and amount of territory it still occupies. Just look at the map of its administrative regions. And yes, it is indeed opposed to other Western powers. That isn't new - at the height of colonialism, European colonial powers were constantly fighting each other. That didn't make any of them any less Western.
sebastos 11mo ago
> It's convenient that your knowledge of what "started" begins on October 7th and all the events of history prior since 1948 never happened What it comes down to is whether you can admit that the events of October 7th provoked a new military campaign that would not otherwise have happened. You can either admit that, or you can admit that you’re just going to what-about no matter what happens, and never speak honestly about the asymmetry between the way these two sides have conducted themselves (and can be expected to continue conducting themselves).
- hashim 11mo ago
  No, what it comes down to is whether you can admit that Palestine and Gaza are being occupied by a colonial power that doesn't have the right to be there, has consistently engaged in ethnic cleansing, genocide of entire villages and war crimes since its foundation, and that resistance to it will continue until that fact changes considerably. No-one living in a Western bubble, least of all Israel, gets to set the terms by which a people who Westerners have helped occupy for the last 70 years resist - just ask the Viet Cong. Whataboutism is the fallacy of pointing to irrelevant examples, so no, pointing out hypocrisy is not that. As for asymmetry, I assume you're talking about the fact that one is a heavily armed Western-funded superpower and the other is a handful of militias using the few arms they can get hold of from the only real ally they have in Iran, and not much stronger than they were in 1948 and 1967 when they were villagers being waged "war" on by said superpower.
  - sebastos 11mo ago
    The asymmetry is that Hamas uses human shields to great effect, whereas the IDF doesn’t and couldn’t because their foe wouldn’t care. It’s all you really need to know. >resistance to it will continue ‘Resistance’ is an incredible word to summarize October 7th. Is it possible you haven’t looked into the full sordid details of that day? It is beyond comprehension. If you’re disturbed by hate-fueled violence perpetrated purely for the sake of exterminating an ethnic / religious group you hate, then Oct 7th is the genuine article. The fact is that this conflict is not about resistance, and this is easily seen because the majority of Palestinians have no good faith interest in a two state solution. Go read poll results if you doubt me. Support for Hamas and its actions is robust, even in the West Bank (~70% at one count). The goal here is not merely resisting the occupier. The show’s not over until the Jews are dead and gone. The only real fix is to de-program the people in the region (both sides) from building their identity around a border dispute, and that’s not going to happen until the volume is turned down on the religious element.
deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
davidf18 11mo ago
[dead]
mhb 11mo ago
Almost as convenient as your suggestion that the only relevant history started in 1948.

by hashim 11mo ago

int_19h 11mo ago

> Although the good news is that Israel is and will be the last true Western colonial state. What do you think Russia is?

hashim 11mo ago
You think Russia is a Western power and ally?
- int_19h 11mo ago
  I'm Russian myself, and I think Russia is a Western (white European) colonial empire, and the largest one in terms of the sheer number of peoples and amount of territory it still occupies. Just look at the map of its administrative regions. And yes, it is indeed opposed to other Western powers. That isn't new - at the height of colonialism, European colonial powers were constantly fighting each other. That didn't make any of them any less Western.

sebastos 11mo ago

> It's convenient that your knowledge of what "started" begins on October 7th and all the events of history prior since 1948 never happened What it comes down to is whether you can admit that the events of October 7th provoked a new military campaign that would not otherwise have happened. You can either admit that, or you can admit that you’re just going to what-about no matter what happens, and never speak honestly about the asymmetry between the way these two sides have conducted themselves (and can be expected to continue conducting themselves).

hashim 11mo ago
No, what it comes down to is whether you can admit that Palestine and Gaza are being occupied by a colonial power that doesn't have the right to be there, has consistently engaged in ethnic cleansing, genocide of entire villages and war crimes since its foundation, and that resistance to it will continue until that fact changes considerably. No-one living in a Western bubble, least of all Israel, gets to set the terms by which a people who Westerners have helped occupy for the last 70 years resist - just ask the Viet Cong. Whataboutism is the fallacy of pointing to irrelevant examples, so no, pointing out hypocrisy is not that. As for asymmetry, I assume you're talking about the fact that one is a heavily armed Western-funded superpower and the other is a handful of militias using the few arms they can get hold of from the only real ally they have in Iran, and not much stronger than they were in 1948 and 1967 when they were villagers being waged "war" on by said superpower.
- sebastos 11mo ago
  The asymmetry is that Hamas uses human shields to great effect, whereas the IDF doesn’t and couldn’t because their foe wouldn’t care. It’s all you really need to know. >resistance to it will continue ‘Resistance’ is an incredible word to summarize October 7th. Is it possible you haven’t looked into the full sordid details of that day? It is beyond comprehension. If you’re disturbed by hate-fueled violence perpetrated purely for the sake of exterminating an ethnic / religious group you hate, then Oct 7th is the genuine article. The fact is that this conflict is not about resistance, and this is easily seen because the majority of Palestinians have no good faith interest in a two state solution. Go read poll results if you doubt me. Support for Hamas and its actions is robust, even in the West Bank (~70% at one count). The goal here is not merely resisting the occupier. The show’s not over until the Jews are dead and gone. The only real fix is to de-program the people in the region (both sides) from building their identity around a border dispute, and that’s not going to happen until the volume is turned down on the religious element.

deleted 11mo ago

[deleted]

davidf18 11mo ago

[dead]

mhb 11mo ago

Almost as convenient as your suggestion that the only relevant history started in 1948.