4 ms·

You don't need a crazy fast connection for most of this automation stuff, because it has to be able to operate offline successfully to start with. Any dark fac

by CMay 11mo ago

You don't need a crazy fast connection for most of this automation stuff, because it has to be able to operate offline successfully to start with. Any dark factory should be running on its own wireless network anyway, not some cellular network. Who would do that? Even for a local wireless network, why would a Huawei router be any better? To me, this was never about 5G or 6G. This was always about CCP controlled network hardware getting installed across the globe taking advantage of a natural iterative next step in network improvement which would be fine if the CCP wasn't absolutely psycho and immoral, but they seem to be. I'm sure there are many well-meaning and smart people who work at Huawei, but unfortunately any advantage a Chinese company gets in a foreign market becomes potentially leveraged as CCP advantage and control. Many countries leverage their companies abroad if something is important enough, but few countries are as bold or blatant as China in this regard. Nobody is worried about most of these countries excessively abusing their influence abroad, because most care about their reputation. China is basically untrusted by all of its neighbors and doesn't seem to care about authentic reputation over manipulation. To them, "harmony" just seems like a way to misspell "control". Balance to them means nothing if they aren't the center of gravity. For as old and advanced as China has become, it discarded all of its slow wisdom to be wrong as fast as possible. Can a country like that really be trusted? No, it can't. There isn't any country on Earth that can be trusted 100%, but the CCP is just far below the threshold of even tolerable levels of trust. There is nothing 5G or 6G provides that is worth letting the CCP control your networks. Aside from just spying or hacking, imagine World War 3 comes around and the CCP just decides it's time to shut off all our networks? Trust is almost always more important than speed.

throawayonthe 11mo ago
ignoring the weird moralizing about china, i think the parent comment is indeed referring to factories etc running their own 5G networks, that is very much a thing; ie aws used to have a private 5g offering, there are some open source projects, more that i can't remember
- CMay 11mo ago
  That's fair, I just don't see 5G or 6G being make-or-break for any kinds of manufacturing. Do any examples exist where this is the case?
rzerowan 11mo ago
To steelman some of the points youve posted >You don't need a crazy fast connection for most of this automation stuff, because it has to be able to operate offline successfully to start with As i mentioned youre looking at it as a consumer, this is industrial systems.Its not about speed primarily but latency - costs of deployment and maintainance.Your COTS router is not being installed wher million dollar assembly lines are operating, and for any serious business concern low opex/capex are first and foremost as well as reproducibility for expansion. KUKA robot arms are not being connected to TPlink routers.Together with the nature of Just-In-Time manufacturing , instant data for maintainance and logistics is crucial. Ditto for the automated ports [1] >There is nothing 5G or 6G provides that is worth letting the CCP control your networks. Aside from just spying or hacking The two standards are currently accelerating both consumer and industrial changes worldwide.There are some networks in GlobalSouth countries whose speed/latencies will rival even those deployed in major US cities. Its a question of leveraging future infrstructure for productivity and improving living standards. As for espionage and hacking that was stillthere even with dialup modems and fax machines. Regarding countries using their leverage via multicorps abroad , you really should read up on the US CLOUD act, patriot act etc and cast a cursory glance at entities as benign sounding as Nestle(child slaves in W.Africa) Chiquita(Death Squads in S.America) PullMan Cigarettes (suing to block ati cigaratte ads in SE.Asia) ,not adding historical ones like Swiss CryptoAG. In short multicorps are immoral profit extracting entities and on the global stage they act sometimes directly with their parent county to further whatever agandas they have. Thus far no Chinese companies have been implicated in any such shenanigans - as im pretty sure if it had happened it would be published about in banner headlines 24/7/365. As it stands all the accusations are simply alllegations of a future scenario , which most people specify any sensible person should be able to mitigate with good security architecture and practices. [1]https://govinsider.asia/intl-en/article/how-huaweis-5g-solutions-have-made-operations-in-tianjin-port-smoother-and-more-efficient https://govinsider.asia/intl-en/article/how-huaweis-5g-solut...
- Retric 11mo ago
  If you want to steel man the argument it’s worth acknowledging that China is also concerned with backdoors in what they import. > allegations of a future scenario There’s been plenty of CCP aligned hacking, backdoors, and industrial espionage people can point to. Expecting a bad actor to continue there behavior is a little more than allegations of a future scenario.
hearsathought 11mo ago
The good old ccp rule. You can tell how deranged a comment is by the number of times it has "ccp" in it. > CCP wasn't absolutely psycho and immoral As opposed to what? The US? The EU? Germany? Seems like the CCP is the least psycho and immoral of the bunch. > but few countries are as bold or blatant as China in this regard. China is the least bold and blatant out of the major players. > Nobody is worried about most of these countries excessively abusing their influence abroad Everyone is. It's just that "those countries" are in no position to fight back against the US. > Trust is almost always more important than speed. If trust was important, then germany woud choose "ccp's" huawei. After all, it's germany's "allies" that spy on them the most. And the "ccp" would win by providing the world with the most trustworthy network hardware.
- CMay 11mo ago
  The reason I specify the CCP specifically rather than always stating China, is because the government is not "of", "by" and "for" the people. There are many Chinese people and only a small fraction of them are part of that government structure. The propaganda battle around whether Taiwan is a part of China or not also doesn't help. The rest of your commentary suggests you need to broaden your horizons for where you get information.

by CMay 11mo ago

throawayonthe 11mo ago

ignoring the weird moralizing about china, i think the parent comment is indeed referring to factories etc running their own 5G networks, that is very much a thing; ie aws used to have a private 5g offering, there are some open source projects, more that i can't remember

CMay 11mo ago
That's fair, I just don't see 5G or 6G being make-or-break for any kinds of manufacturing. Do any examples exist where this is the case?

rzerowan 11mo ago

To steelman some of the points youve posted >You don't need a crazy fast connection for most of this automation stuff, because it has to be able to operate offline successfully to start with As i mentioned youre looking at it as a consumer, this is industrial systems.Its not about speed primarily but latency - costs of deployment and maintainance.Your COTS router is not being installed wher million dollar assembly lines are operating, and for any serious business concern low opex/capex are first and foremost as well as reproducibility for expansion. KUKA robot arms are not being connected to TPlink routers.Together with the nature of Just-In-Time manufacturing , instant data for maintainance and logistics is crucial. Ditto for the automated ports [1] >There is nothing 5G or 6G provides that is worth letting the CCP control your networks. Aside from just spying or hacking The two standards are currently accelerating both consumer and industrial changes worldwide.There are some networks in GlobalSouth countries whose speed/latencies will rival even those deployed in major US cities. Its a question of leveraging future infrstructure for productivity and improving living standards. As for espionage and hacking that was stillthere even with dialup modems and fax machines. Regarding countries using their leverage via multicorps abroad , you really should read up on the US CLOUD act, patriot act etc and cast a cursory glance at entities as benign sounding as Nestle(child slaves in W.Africa) Chiquita(Death Squads in S.America) PullMan Cigarettes (suing to block ati cigaratte ads in SE.Asia) ,not adding historical ones like Swiss CryptoAG. In short multicorps are immoral profit extracting entities and on the global stage they act sometimes directly with their parent county to further whatever agandas they have. Thus far no Chinese companies have been implicated in any such shenanigans - as im pretty sure if it had happened it would be published about in banner headlines 24/7/365. As it stands all the accusations are simply alllegations of a future scenario , which most people specify any sensible person should be able to mitigate with good security architecture and practices. [1]https://govinsider.asia/intl-en/article/how-huaweis-5g-solutions-have-made-operations-in-tianjin-port-smoother-and-more-efficient https://govinsider.asia/intl-en/article/how-huaweis-5g-solut...

Retric 11mo ago
If you want to steel man the argument it’s worth acknowledging that China is also concerned with backdoors in what they import. > allegations of a future scenario There’s been plenty of CCP aligned hacking, backdoors, and industrial espionage people can point to. Expecting a bad actor to continue there behavior is a little more than allegations of a future scenario.

hearsathought 11mo ago

The good old ccp rule. You can tell how deranged a comment is by the number of times it has "ccp" in it. > CCP wasn't absolutely psycho and immoral As opposed to what? The US? The EU? Germany? Seems like the CCP is the least psycho and immoral of the bunch. > but few countries are as bold or blatant as China in this regard. China is the least bold and blatant out of the major players. > Nobody is worried about most of these countries excessively abusing their influence abroad Everyone is. It's just that "those countries" are in no position to fight back against the US. > Trust is almost always more important than speed. If trust was important, then germany woud choose "ccp's" huawei. After all, it's germany's "allies" that spy on them the most. And the "ccp" would win by providing the world with the most trustworthy network hardware.

CMay 11mo ago
The reason I specify the CCP specifically rather than always stating China, is because the government is not "of", "by" and "for" the people. There are many Chinese people and only a small fraction of them are part of that government structure. The propaganda battle around whether Taiwan is a part of China or not also doesn't help. The rest of your commentary suggests you need to broaden your horizons for where you get information.