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Acting like the dominant political stream in Israel has not been interested in occupying Gaza since at least 1967 to this day is a bald faced and shameless misd

by mef51 11mo ago

Acting like the dominant political stream in Israel has not been interested in occupying Gaza since at least 1967 to this day is a bald faced and shameless misdirection.

vladgur 11mo ago
So that interest was actualized through removing all Jews -- living and dead -- from Gaza in 2005?
- immibis 11mo ago
  Sure. Just look at how they're doing now: they have the full support of the world to re-invade Gaza, and this can be justified by the fact that no Jews live there (Just look three comments above yours: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45932249 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45932249 ) If there were Israeli Jews (I am not referring to the religious group, but by which side of the conflict people are on) living in Gaza, such arguments wouldn't work, just like they don't work for the West Bank (which is also getting genocided but we're not talking about it, so maybe that strategy works too).
  - vladgur 11mo ago
    Lets make the order of operatons clear. 1) Hamas started a war with Israel by invading it, slaughtering and raping hundreds of civilians at the music festival and in their homes as well as taking hundreds of civilians hostage, including as we all know an toddlers, womens and elderly. 2) Israel in order to rescue its citizens as well as protect them from future attacked invaded Gaza and attacked Hammas and its infrastructure So yeah, it makes sense to support the country trying to rescue its hostages from an enemy government. We can debate how Israel prosecutes the war, but its a war that Hamas started and yet in your accusation of Israel above there is no mention of role Gazan goverment -- Hamas -- played in this war. I doubt that my country -- the US -- would prosecute the war any better, had it been invaded by thousands of Mexican federales killing 42,000 people -- an equivalent of population the city of Cupertino where Apple is headquartered -- while kidnapping 9,000 of our citizens. I doubt any country would do better as a matter of fact.
    - C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 11mo ago
      > Hamas started a war with Israel by invading it, slaughtering and raping hundreds of civilians at the music festival and in their homes Could you provide conclusive evidence for that? Could you provide even cases of formally filed rape allegations? [1] Yes I know that a lot of Israeli media people made the accusation, but there's no reason to repeat something that no proof was given for. [1] https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20250106-no-rape-allegations-filed-from-7-october-reaveals-israeli-prosecutor/ https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20250106-no-rape-allegatio...
      - vladgur 11mo ago
        Im not going to engage in "Hamas slaughered festival goers on camera, killed a father in front of his kids, while blowing out one their eyes and kidnapped toddlers, but we will question the sex crimes being committed". Is protecting the killers of families, babies and kidnappers of toddlers from accusations of sexual assault really the proverbial "hill you want to die on"? Lets focus on order of operatons: 1) Hamas started a war 2) Israel responded in order to free its citizens and protect from future attacks.
      - vladgur 11mo ago
        I find middleeastmonitor.com an extremely biased anti-israeli propaganda piece that makes BBC seem like an unbiased news organization. If you search for the name "Moran Gaz" used in this article to conclude that "Gaz stated that her department has found no evidence of sexual violence" is actually not true and is Moran's statements were quite nuanced: " In the end, we have no complainants. What was presented in the media compared to what will ultimately emerge will be completely different. Either because the victims were murdered, or because the women who were raped by them are not prepared to reveal it. We contacted women's rights organizations and asked for cooperation. They told us that they simply did not contact them. There were parents who contacted the organizations and asked what to do if something happened to their daughter, but they did not disclose the abuse...I know there is public expectation and understand the need to address the horrific sexual crimes and sexual assaults that have been committed, but the vast majority of them will not be able to meet the threshold of proof in court, and the criticism will ultimately come to the prosecutor's office – unjustly. " >> Either because the victims were murdered, or because the women who were raped by them are not prepared to reveal it. >> We contacted women's rights organizations and asked for cooperation. They told us that they simply did not contact them. This reads entirely different that what that article from MiddleEastMonitor.com leads you to believe. The way its titled and the way you interpreted is there were no sexual assaults, only slaughter, only murders. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_and_gender-based_violence_in_the_October_7_attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_and_gender-based_violen... Or if you read Hebrew (i dont): https://archive.ph/yEKjp https://archive.ph/yEKjp
yoavm 11mo ago
First, as the other comment mentioned, that political stream you're talking about was literally the one the left Gaza. Second, that political stream is the opposition of the Zionism stream that established Israel. Picking and choosing the last two years as a proof for what Zionism is all about is like saying "Americanism is all about taking over Greenland". Somehow, when it's Zionism, people will not notice how ridiculous that sounds.

by mef51 11mo ago

Acting like the dominant political stream in Israel has not been interested in occupying Gaza since at least 1967 to this day is a bald faced and shameless misdirection.

vladgur 11mo ago

So that interest was actualized through removing all Jews -- living and dead -- from Gaza in 2005?

immibis 11mo ago
Sure. Just look at how they're doing now: they have the full support of the world to re-invade Gaza, and this can be justified by the fact that no Jews live there (Just look three comments above yours: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45932249 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45932249 ) If there were Israeli Jews (I am not referring to the religious group, but by which side of the conflict people are on) living in Gaza, such arguments wouldn't work, just like they don't work for the West Bank (which is also getting genocided but we're not talking about it, so maybe that strategy works too).
- vladgur 11mo ago
  Lets make the order of operatons clear. 1) Hamas started a war with Israel by invading it, slaughtering and raping hundreds of civilians at the music festival and in their homes as well as taking hundreds of civilians hostage, including as we all know an toddlers, womens and elderly. 2) Israel in order to rescue its citizens as well as protect them from future attacked invaded Gaza and attacked Hammas and its infrastructure So yeah, it makes sense to support the country trying to rescue its hostages from an enemy government. We can debate how Israel prosecutes the war, but its a war that Hamas started and yet in your accusation of Israel above there is no mention of role Gazan goverment -- Hamas -- played in this war. I doubt that my country -- the US -- would prosecute the war any better, had it been invaded by thousands of Mexican federales killing 42,000 people -- an equivalent of population the city of Cupertino where Apple is headquartered -- while kidnapping 9,000 of our citizens. I doubt any country would do better as a matter of fact.
  - C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 11mo ago
    > Hamas started a war with Israel by invading it, slaughtering and raping hundreds of civilians at the music festival and in their homes Could you provide conclusive evidence for that? Could you provide even cases of formally filed rape allegations? [1] Yes I know that a lot of Israeli media people made the accusation, but there's no reason to repeat something that no proof was given for. [1] https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20250106-no-rape-allegations-filed-from-7-october-reaveals-israeli-prosecutor/ https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20250106-no-rape-allegatio...
    - vladgur 11mo ago
      Im not going to engage in "Hamas slaughered festival goers on camera, killed a father in front of his kids, while blowing out one their eyes and kidnapped toddlers, but we will question the sex crimes being committed". Is protecting the killers of families, babies and kidnappers of toddlers from accusations of sexual assault really the proverbial "hill you want to die on"? Lets focus on order of operatons: 1) Hamas started a war 2) Israel responded in order to free its citizens and protect from future attacks.
    - vladgur 11mo ago
      I find middleeastmonitor.com an extremely biased anti-israeli propaganda piece that makes BBC seem like an unbiased news organization. If you search for the name "Moran Gaz" used in this article to conclude that "Gaz stated that her department has found no evidence of sexual violence" is actually not true and is Moran's statements were quite nuanced: " In the end, we have no complainants. What was presented in the media compared to what will ultimately emerge will be completely different. Either because the victims were murdered, or because the women who were raped by them are not prepared to reveal it. We contacted women's rights organizations and asked for cooperation. They told us that they simply did not contact them. There were parents who contacted the organizations and asked what to do if something happened to their daughter, but they did not disclose the abuse...I know there is public expectation and understand the need to address the horrific sexual crimes and sexual assaults that have been committed, but the vast majority of them will not be able to meet the threshold of proof in court, and the criticism will ultimately come to the prosecutor's office – unjustly. " >> Either because the victims were murdered, or because the women who were raped by them are not prepared to reveal it. >> We contacted women's rights organizations and asked for cooperation. They told us that they simply did not contact them. This reads entirely different that what that article from MiddleEastMonitor.com leads you to believe. The way its titled and the way you interpreted is there were no sexual assaults, only slaughter, only murders. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_and_gender-based_violence_in_the_October_7_attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_and_gender-based_violen... Or if you read Hebrew (i dont): https://archive.ph/yEKjp https://archive.ph/yEKjp

yoavm 11mo ago

First, as the other comment mentioned, that political stream you're talking about was literally the one the left Gaza. Second, that political stream is the opposition of the Zionism stream that established Israel. Picking and choosing the last two years as a proof for what Zionism is all about is like saying "Americanism is all about taking over Greenland". Somehow, when it's Zionism, people will not notice how ridiculous that sounds.