3 ms·

Whose sovereignity though? And to replace it with what? As almost all 6G kit builds on 5G kit which is at most 40% Huawei FRAND patented.So whatever the path HW

by rzerowan 11mo ago

Whose sovereignity though? And to replace it with what? As almost all 6G kit builds on 5G kit which is at most 40% Huawei FRAND patented.So whatever the path HW gets paid. As an aside the whole OpenRAN debacle to replcae 5G kit seems to have peterd out after the initial hype. This move also ignores economies of scale - if the rest of the planet is on HW kit lowerig cost even with razor thin margins.The opps Nokia/Ericsson would either have to get massive subsidies to make financial sense or have a worse cost/benefit ratio. One thing that gets glossed over though , is that the end user speeds/stability arent the main driver for 5/6G advancement (even though thats where all the marketing hype went) of course mobile device connectivity is growing and most users interaction online is primarily mobile. The big draw use case is the industrial and automation applications, where HW has a signifiant lead - from autiomated ports that aut load/unload to automated 'dark factories' that run without human intervention.Thats where the 'real' application is. The other use case for end users most likely will be in the autonomus cars and humanoid robots once they take off to any significant degree. The only other way to make up the requisite volume from such an endeavor is one that Brussels was floating about a month ago. The Global Gateway funds to assist developing countries will come with ano HW clause.Might just be the final nail in the coffin in EU efforts to retain friends and influence with the rest of the planet.Whose main concern is living a modern life with the infra not requiring you mortgage your childrens future.

paganel 11mo ago
> The Global Gateway funds to assist developing countries will come with ano HW clause. So they only want to "save" the Planet and its (presumably poorer) people if said poorer people acquiesce with their imperialistic reflexes, tale as old as time when it comes to the West. But not sure why would they need the Global South's money for all of this? Aren't they, the magnificent West, big enough to shoulder almost any costs? Especially when it comes to "strategic" concerns. Or so they were saying.
- rzerowan 11mo ago
  The way most of these deals get structured especially when multicorps get involved is requiring the donor gov to guarantee the loan. Which gets routed to the recepient country, kickbacks get shaved off and re-routed back to the donor country. In this instance though my thinking is that for competeive pricing they would need volume , and prerequisite demand. This would be one way to generate that demand.In a way similar to the whole Tariff circus just more upfront.
CMay 11mo ago
You don't need a crazy fast connection for most of this automation stuff, because it has to be able to operate offline successfully to start with. Any dark factory should be running on its own wireless network anyway, not some cellular network. Who would do that? Even for a local wireless network, why would a Huawei router be any better? To me, this was never about 5G or 6G. This was always about CCP controlled network hardware getting installed across the globe taking advantage of a natural iterative next step in network improvement which would be fine if the CCP wasn't absolutely psycho and immoral, but they seem to be. I'm sure there are many well-meaning and smart people who work at Huawei, but unfortunately any advantage a Chinese company gets in a foreign market becomes potentially leveraged as CCP advantage and control. Many countries leverage their companies abroad if something is important enough, but few countries are as bold or blatant as China in this regard. Nobody is worried about most of these countries excessively abusing their influence abroad, because most care about their reputation. China is basically untrusted by all of its neighbors and doesn't seem to care about authentic reputation over manipulation. To them, "harmony" just seems like a way to misspell "control". Balance to them means nothing if they aren't the center of gravity. For as old and advanced as China has become, it discarded all of its slow wisdom to be wrong as fast as possible. Can a country like that really be trusted? No, it can't. There isn't any country on Earth that can be trusted 100%, but the CCP is just far below the threshold of even tolerable levels of trust. There is nothing 5G or 6G provides that is worth letting the CCP control your networks. Aside from just spying or hacking, imagine World War 3 comes around and the CCP just decides it's time to shut off all our networks? Trust is almost always more important than speed.
- throawayonthe 11mo ago
  ignoring the weird moralizing about china, i think the parent comment is indeed referring to factories etc running their own 5G networks, that is very much a thing; ie aws used to have a private 5g offering, there are some open source projects, more that i can't remember
  - CMay 11mo ago
    That's fair, I just don't see 5G or 6G being make-or-break for any kinds of manufacturing. Do any examples exist where this is the case?
LtdJorge 11mo ago
We could start treating Chinese patents with the same respect they treated the rest of the world’s, maybe.
- 7bit 11mo ago
  We could. But then we throw away the basis on how we treat European, Australian, Japanese, American, etc. patents. You either respect patents or you don't. There is no middle ground.
  - jimmydorry 11mo ago
    Why would we change the way we respect those? None of those nations engage in the same uncompetitive practices that the Chinese do with respect to patents and IP.
maxdo 11mo ago
Good attempt comrade. China + Russia + Iran fueling the war with Europe. They openly declare a war on way of living of western world . Sure , build critical infrastructure independently is insane.
- ii41 11mo ago
  Isn't it the other way around? I mean, I keep seeing western people advertising that the ways of living in those countries are wrong and they must change, while I don't often see anyone urging western countries to change their way of living.
  - maxdo 11mo ago
    [flagged]
- StopDisinfo910 11mo ago
  The Russia, China, and Iran axis doesn’t exist. That’s American propaganda linking together three countries it dislikes. Iran has loose relations with both which are not dissimilar to the one it has with the EU. Its conflict is also fairly limited to Israel and the Middle East. Meanwhile, Russia and China have an ambivalent relationship where they are key economic partners with complementary economies but have no official military alliance and are somewhat wary of each other as Russia fears a potential Chinese invasion.
- hearsathought 11mo ago
  > China + Russia + Iran fueling the war with Europe. It's the other way around. Europe fueling war with china + russia + iran. It isn't china sending warships along german, british, european coastline. It wasn't russia that overthrew democracy in ukraine. And it isn't iran bombing europe. > They openly declare a war on way of living of western world . No. You once again have it backwards. It's the western world declaring war on them. The genuine head scratcher is why china, russian and iran haven't formally joined forces to fight back.
wosined 11mo ago
Does China enforce western patent laws?

paganel 11mo ago

> The Global Gateway funds to assist developing countries will come with ano HW clause. So they only want to "save" the Planet and its (presumably poorer) people if said poorer people acquiesce with their imperialistic reflexes, tale as old as time when it comes to the West. But not sure why would they need the Global South's money for all of this? Aren't they, the magnificent West, big enough to shoulder almost any costs? Especially when it comes to "strategic" concerns. Or so they were saying.

rzerowan 11mo ago
The way most of these deals get structured especially when multicorps get involved is requiring the donor gov to guarantee the loan. Which gets routed to the recepient country, kickbacks get shaved off and re-routed back to the donor country. In this instance though my thinking is that for competeive pricing they would need volume , and prerequisite demand. This would be one way to generate that demand.In a way similar to the whole Tariff circus just more upfront.

CMay 11mo ago

You don't need a crazy fast connection for most of this automation stuff, because it has to be able to operate offline successfully to start with. Any dark factory should be running on its own wireless network anyway, not some cellular network. Who would do that? Even for a local wireless network, why would a Huawei router be any better? To me, this was never about 5G or 6G. This was always about CCP controlled network hardware getting installed across the globe taking advantage of a natural iterative next step in network improvement which would be fine if the CCP wasn't absolutely psycho and immoral, but they seem to be. I'm sure there are many well-meaning and smart people who work at Huawei, but unfortunately any advantage a Chinese company gets in a foreign market becomes potentially leveraged as CCP advantage and control. Many countries leverage their companies abroad if something is important enough, but few countries are as bold or blatant as China in this regard. Nobody is worried about most of these countries excessively abusing their influence abroad, because most care about their reputation. China is basically untrusted by all of its neighbors and doesn't seem to care about authentic reputation over manipulation. To them, "harmony" just seems like a way to misspell "control". Balance to them means nothing if they aren't the center of gravity. For as old and advanced as China has become, it discarded all of its slow wisdom to be wrong as fast as possible. Can a country like that really be trusted? No, it can't. There isn't any country on Earth that can be trusted 100%, but the CCP is just far below the threshold of even tolerable levels of trust. There is nothing 5G or 6G provides that is worth letting the CCP control your networks. Aside from just spying or hacking, imagine World War 3 comes around and the CCP just decides it's time to shut off all our networks? Trust is almost always more important than speed.

throawayonthe 11mo ago
ignoring the weird moralizing about china, i think the parent comment is indeed referring to factories etc running their own 5G networks, that is very much a thing; ie aws used to have a private 5g offering, there are some open source projects, more that i can't remember
- CMay 11mo ago
  That's fair, I just don't see 5G or 6G being make-or-break for any kinds of manufacturing. Do any examples exist where this is the case?

LtdJorge 11mo ago

We could start treating Chinese patents with the same respect they treated the rest of the world’s, maybe.

7bit 11mo ago
We could. But then we throw away the basis on how we treat European, Australian, Japanese, American, etc. patents. You either respect patents or you don't. There is no middle ground.
- jimmydorry 11mo ago
  Why would we change the way we respect those? None of those nations engage in the same uncompetitive practices that the Chinese do with respect to patents and IP.

maxdo 11mo ago

Good attempt comrade. China + Russia + Iran fueling the war with Europe. They openly declare a war on way of living of western world . Sure , build critical infrastructure independently is insane.

ii41 11mo ago
Isn't it the other way around? I mean, I keep seeing western people advertising that the ways of living in those countries are wrong and they must change, while I don't often see anyone urging western countries to change their way of living.
- maxdo 11mo ago
  [flagged]
StopDisinfo910 11mo ago
The Russia, China, and Iran axis doesn’t exist. That’s American propaganda linking together three countries it dislikes. Iran has loose relations with both which are not dissimilar to the one it has with the EU. Its conflict is also fairly limited to Israel and the Middle East. Meanwhile, Russia and China have an ambivalent relationship where they are key economic partners with complementary economies but have no official military alliance and are somewhat wary of each other as Russia fears a potential Chinese invasion.
hearsathought 11mo ago
> China + Russia + Iran fueling the war with Europe. It's the other way around. Europe fueling war with china + russia + iran. It isn't china sending warships along german, british, european coastline. It wasn't russia that overthrew democracy in ukraine. And it isn't iran bombing europe. > They openly declare a war on way of living of western world . No. You once again have it backwards. It's the western world declaring war on them. The genuine head scratcher is why china, russian and iran haven't formally joined forces to fight back.

wosined 11mo ago

Does China enforce western patent laws?