3 ms·

The amount of energy needed to create this would be enormous. At the rate technology is shaping up, it would probably be money better spent to make it so that

by maeon3 14y ago

The amount of energy needed to create this would be enormous. At the rate technology is shaping up, it would probably be money better spent to make it so that humans don't need those monsterous devices just so we can remain alive without an atmosphere and gravity. Instead, we work to evolve an plastic exoskeleton and imbedded "always on" technology inside us so humans can survive in outer space as easily as they survive on the surface of Earth. So you have to fuel up with oxygen and food, but then you are good to go and then you don't need to waste all that energy to move trillions of tons soil into space. The future is often very different than we expect, we may find out that we explore the universe in 2 foot by 2 foot by 6 foot pods inside of monsterous spaceships with arms, legs, sensors and technology. And we fly around the universe doing what humans always do. The human in the center of the ship, unconscious and living through and commanding the machine. Why carry along the body, just use the brain. Better yet, get 1000 brains per ship. Machines inside controlling the ship directed by the minds.

podperson 14y ago
Surely it will be one by four by nine foot pods.
jacques_chester 14y ago
Or it could be that we all live as programs running on the computronium that used to be our solar system; or some combination of all of these. In any case, energy in space was not that big an issue. Unlimited supplies of it stream past earth's orbit pretty much all the time, you just need some concentrating mirrors or photovoltaic panels to put it to work. The thing is that getting a foot hold is murderously expensive. And it remains merely prohibitively expensive unless and until you develop a cheap way to get mass into earth orbit.
bdunbar 14y ago
waste all that energy to move trillions of tons soil into space. Nobody plans on doing that. There are already trillions of tons of material _in_ space - it merely needs to be moved to where you want the habitat to be.
- pan69 14y ago
  Indeed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_mining http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_mining
  - dredmorbius 14y ago
    Actually, lunar mining was the O'Neill model as I understand: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_mining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_mining
angersock 14y ago
Which is easier to sell folks on? "You'll be able to lie about in the terraformed Martian soil/space station garden/ship farm and gaze at the stars!" or "We'll flay the skin from you and replace it with a polymer and wiring. In fact, we may just decide to crack open your skull and yank your brain, and shove it into a box, where electrodes will provide stimulus and try to present a mapping of sensory inputs you aren't evolved to process." Honestly, I think the former is an easier sell. Also, the technology for the former is here--it just isn't distributed yet. This singularity transhuman nonsense lacks both wonder and reason. It lacks reason because it depends on a lot of technology that hasn't been invented yet and presupposes that people will want to mutilate themselves on a whim. Worse, it lacks wonder, because instead of attempting to change the world to suit us--perhaps the most fundamental of human drives--it instead seeks to alter what we are in attempts to make things "easier" and "more efficient".
- efnx 14y ago
  I think it was William Gibson who said, "the future is here, it just isn't evenly distributed...".
- reso 14y ago
  I understand your sentiment, but I think you're choosing your examples too carefully. Other singularity-era technology could let us breathe underwater, or increase our muscle and bone-density ten-fold, giving us superhero like strength. I think that's pretty wondrous.
  - angersock 14y ago
    My reading suggests that we assume this technology is developed and ready to go. I too could see, once we pull out the singularity dust, a future where extensive body modification is possible, where my vision is trivially fixed to have larger spectral response and my skin is a flashing display of whimsy. But, that still supposes quite a bit. Moreover, I'll take your breathing underwater example to point something else out, as well as the muscle/bone-density one. We have that technology--some sort of Self-Contained Underwater Breathing Apparatus; a SCUBA, if you will. Similarly, we have ways of increasing muscle mass using steroids and other additives. And you know what? This is largely the domain of the rich, or of those who have money and time to spend on frivolities. So much of the singularity tech that I see bandied about seems to fall very much in that camp (see also: http://archive.picturesforsadchildren.com/93/ http://archive.picturesforsadchildren.com/93/ ). I'd much rather see better distribution and use of existing technology than wait for The Future--especially when it's presented as Everything's Possible With Science! (Speculative fiction has done a decent job of picking apart some of threads of these sorts of futures...I'd suggest reading some of the Dangerous Visions anthology or more recently Paolo Bacigalupi if you'd like a properly melancholy commentary on the future with Science! There's this annoying problem of the many billions in poverty that somehow always gets waved away.)
dredmorbius 14y ago
If you actually read O'Neill's research (from his book or Heppenheimer's CIS), you'll find that the material for the orbital structures is mined from the moon, and directed to orbit via a magnet linear induction motor "mass launcher" to L4 and L5 libration points at which the space colonies are constructed. Little matter other than colonists and biological source specimens are lifted from Earth. Primary industry was seen as the construction of orbital solar power stations (in geosynchronous orbit), beaming energy to Earth in the form of microwaves. The goal isn't deep space exploration, but orbital habitation structures.

by maeon3 14y ago

podperson 14y ago

Surely it will be one by four by nine foot pods.

jacques_chester 14y ago

Or it could be that we all live as programs running on the computronium that used to be our solar system; or some combination of all of these. In any case, energy in space was not that big an issue. Unlimited supplies of it stream past earth's orbit pretty much all the time, you just need some concentrating mirrors or photovoltaic panels to put it to work. The thing is that getting a foot hold is murderously expensive. And it remains merely prohibitively expensive unless and until you develop a cheap way to get mass into earth orbit.

bdunbar 14y ago

waste all that energy to move trillions of tons soil into space. Nobody plans on doing that. There are already trillions of tons of material _in_ space - it merely needs to be moved to where you want the habitat to be.

pan69 14y ago
Indeed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_mining http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_mining
- dredmorbius 14y ago
  Actually, lunar mining was the O'Neill model as I understand: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_mining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_mining

angersock 14y ago

Which is easier to sell folks on? "You'll be able to lie about in the terraformed Martian soil/space station garden/ship farm and gaze at the stars!" or "We'll flay the skin from you and replace it with a polymer and wiring. In fact, we may just decide to crack open your skull and yank your brain, and shove it into a box, where electrodes will provide stimulus and try to present a mapping of sensory inputs you aren't evolved to process." Honestly, I think the former is an easier sell. Also, the technology for the former is here--it just isn't distributed yet. This singularity transhuman nonsense lacks both wonder and reason. It lacks reason because it depends on a lot of technology that hasn't been invented yet and presupposes that people will want to mutilate themselves on a whim. Worse, it lacks wonder, because instead of attempting to change the world to suit us--perhaps the most fundamental of human drives--it instead seeks to alter what we are in attempts to make things "easier" and "more efficient".

efnx 14y ago
I think it was William Gibson who said, "the future is here, it just isn't evenly distributed...".
reso 14y ago
I understand your sentiment, but I think you're choosing your examples too carefully. Other singularity-era technology could let us breathe underwater, or increase our muscle and bone-density ten-fold, giving us superhero like strength. I think that's pretty wondrous.
- angersock 14y ago
  My reading suggests that we assume this technology is developed and ready to go. I too could see, once we pull out the singularity dust, a future where extensive body modification is possible, where my vision is trivially fixed to have larger spectral response and my skin is a flashing display of whimsy. But, that still supposes quite a bit. Moreover, I'll take your breathing underwater example to point something else out, as well as the muscle/bone-density one. We have that technology--some sort of Self-Contained Underwater Breathing Apparatus; a SCUBA, if you will. Similarly, we have ways of increasing muscle mass using steroids and other additives. And you know what? This is largely the domain of the rich, or of those who have money and time to spend on frivolities. So much of the singularity tech that I see bandied about seems to fall very much in that camp (see also: http://archive.picturesforsadchildren.com/93/ http://archive.picturesforsadchildren.com/93/ ). I'd much rather see better distribution and use of existing technology than wait for The Future--especially when it's presented as Everything's Possible With Science! (Speculative fiction has done a decent job of picking apart some of threads of these sorts of futures...I'd suggest reading some of the Dangerous Visions anthology or more recently Paolo Bacigalupi if you'd like a properly melancholy commentary on the future with Science! There's this annoying problem of the many billions in poverty that somehow always gets waved away.)

dredmorbius 14y ago

If you actually read O'Neill's research (from his book or Heppenheimer's CIS), you'll find that the material for the orbital structures is mined from the moon, and directed to orbit via a magnet linear induction motor "mass launcher" to L4 and L5 libration points at which the space colonies are constructed. Little matter other than colonists and biological source specimens are lifted from Earth. Primary industry was seen as the construction of orbital solar power stations (in geosynchronous orbit), beaming energy to Earth in the form of microwaves. The goal isn't deep space exploration, but orbital habitation structures.