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After the mass graves hoax in Canada, it’s hard to take these stories designed for outrage and ad revenue seriously without more evidence than what is being pre

After the mass graves hoax in Canada, it’s hard to take these stories designed for outrage and ad revenue seriously without more evidence than what is being presented. https://www.fraserinstitute.org/commentary/no-evidence-of-mass-graves-or-genocide-in-residential-schools https://www.fraserinstitute.org/commentary/no-evidence-of-ma...

lifestyleguru 11mo ago
Imagine you can shoot at people, no consequences. Travel somewhere, pay a fee, shoot, then come back to your cozy reality. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/09/the-gaza-family-torn-apart-by-idf-snipers-from-chicago-and-munich https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/09/the-gaza-famil...
- brohee 11mo ago
  There seem to be clear admission of war crime, that looks like prime indictment material by the ICC, which could make traveling not so cosy in the future.
  - Loughla 11mo ago
    Daniel Raab can never come back to the United States. And to be honest, I say good, he can stay away. Ideology is one thing, but he is enjoying killing civilians, knowing they're civilians. Awful.
mykowebhn 11mo ago
Do you have another less biased source? From Wikipedia: > The Fraser Institute is a conservative Canadian public policy think tank registered as a charity. This is the first time I am hearing about the mass graves being a hoax.
- gruez 11mo ago
  Not the OP, but >As of April 2025, no bodies have been exhumed from the suspected gravesites, largely due to a lack of community consensus on whether to investigate detected anomalies at the risk of disturbing burials.[9] As of January 2024, at least three official excavations had been performed with no bodies discovered, though at least one excavation only investigated a portion of the reported ground anomalies at that site.[10][11][12] Disputes regarding the conclusiveness of the evidence has helped spawn a movement of denialism about the existence of some or all residential school burial sites.[9][13][14] Indigenous groups and academics have dismissed claims of a "mass grave hoax", saying that claimed discoveries of mass graves were present in a minority of stories published by mainstream media and that there had been public misinterpretation of what had actually been announced in 2021.[15 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_gravesites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_sc... It sounds like the "mass" part of the "mass graves" is disputed, and there's motte-and-bailey on both sides (eg. "you must think nobody/bazillion died in residential schools") muddying the dispute.
- Steven420 11mo ago
  Only four supposed mass graves have been investigated and all four found no bodies. There is no credible evidence that says there are mass graves
  - pcthrowaway 11mo ago
    It wasn't exactly a "hoax" though, more like sensationalized reporting. Like "so-and-so identified a site where we believe there could be bodies buried" turned into "mass grave uncovered" Some potential burial sites were investigated, no bodies were found. Unmarked graves in association with residential schools certainly have been found in Canada, and since proving a negative in regards to these claims is untenable, the media is generally reluctant to say "see, there were no mass graves after all"
    - Steven420 11mo ago
      Where have unmarked residential school graves been found? Also investigating other supposed grave sites have been disallowed by their respective tribes
      - pcthrowaway 11mo ago
        Here's one from Saskatchewan for example: https://web.archive.org/web/20170408082324/http://www.sicc.sk.ca/archive/saskindian/a75sep3006.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20170408082324/http://www.sicc.s...
- pyuser583 11mo ago
  How do you feel about Quillette? https://quillette.com/2025/02/27/four-years-zero-graves-now-what/ https://quillette.com/2025/02/27/four-years-zero-graves-now-...
  - gruez 11mo ago
    >[Quillette] has been described as libertarian-leaning;[2][3][4] the Columbia Journalism Review called Quillette "the right wing's highly influential answer to Slate",[5] and it has been criticized as an "anti-PC soapbox"[6] and for being "reflexively contrarian".[7] People who were skeptical at The Fraser Institute are probably also skeptical of Quillette
evanjrowley 11mo ago
If you seek it out, you will video footage of pogroms from that conflict. Not the exact circumstances as described in the article, but killings were very real.
ignoramous 11mo ago
> fraserinstitute.org/commentary/no-evidence-of-ma... You've a gripe with outrage and yet... I mean, any think tank can write anything they think and post it to the interwebs. Here's the other side's perspective: Since the confirmation of community knowledge of suspected unmarked graves in Kamloops, First Nations across Canada have located evidence of the remains of more than 2,300 children in suspected unmarked graves at or near former residential schools and Indian hospitals, according to the report. But the unauthorized visits to the site are the work of a "core group" of Canadians who continue to deny, defend or minimize the physical, sexual, psychological and emotional abuse inflicted on Indigenous children in the Indian Residential School System "despite the indisputable evidence of survivors and their families," Murray said at a Friday news conference. Denialism and disrespect exacerbate the pain and trauma of survivors and community members trying to grieve and search the grave sites. "Denialism is violence. Denialism is calculated. Denialism is harmful. Denialism is hate," Murray said. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/denialists-tried-to-access-unmarked-gravesite-tkemlups-report-1.6879980 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/denialists-t...
- smithoc 11mo ago
  So there is no actual evidence, and you're committing a hate crime if you ask to see evidence or point out that there's no evidence. If a white person has a drunk uncle or crazy aunt tell a wild conspiracy theory at a family gathering, people dismiss them as a kook. But if an indigenous person does the same thing, it's supposed to be treated as sacred cultural knowledge being passed down? I have an uncle who swears there are thousands of people who've been killed by Bill and Hillary Clinton. He has lists and websites and links to obituaries about deaths "deemed suicides" or "not investigated" or "unsolved". I don't think that my skepticism about his claims is violence or hate.
  - ignoramous 11mo ago
    > I don't think that my skepticism about his claims is violence or hate. You realise the investigations are on-going after the initial community-led assessments done with remote sensing tech like GPRs (ground penetrating radars)? This is where this denialism takes an ugly turn. > If a white person has a drunk uncle or crazy aunt tell a wild conspiracy theory at a family gathering, people dismiss them as a kook. I mean, new Holocaust mass graves are still being discovered as institutions keep their investigations up using GPRs! You deny those graves, too? Sure Holocaust denialism is filled with "kooks" unto itself, but surely, we're not those kooks? https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327194663_Holocaust_Archaeology_Using_Ground_Penetrating_Radar_to_Locate_a_Jewish_Mass_Grave_in_Kaunas_Lithuania https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327194663_Holocaust...
jalapenof 11mo ago
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lifestyleguru 11mo ago

Imagine you can shoot at people, no consequences. Travel somewhere, pay a fee, shoot, then come back to your cozy reality. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/09/the-gaza-family-torn-apart-by-idf-snipers-from-chicago-and-munich https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/09/the-gaza-famil...

brohee 11mo ago
There seem to be clear admission of war crime, that looks like prime indictment material by the ICC, which could make traveling not so cosy in the future.
- Loughla 11mo ago
  Daniel Raab can never come back to the United States. And to be honest, I say good, he can stay away. Ideology is one thing, but he is enjoying killing civilians, knowing they're civilians. Awful.

mykowebhn 11mo ago

Do you have another less biased source? From Wikipedia: > The Fraser Institute is a conservative Canadian public policy think tank registered as a charity. This is the first time I am hearing about the mass graves being a hoax.

gruez 11mo ago
Not the OP, but >As of April 2025, no bodies have been exhumed from the suspected gravesites, largely due to a lack of community consensus on whether to investigate detected anomalies at the risk of disturbing burials.[9] As of January 2024, at least three official excavations had been performed with no bodies discovered, though at least one excavation only investigated a portion of the reported ground anomalies at that site.[10][11][12] Disputes regarding the conclusiveness of the evidence has helped spawn a movement of denialism about the existence of some or all residential school burial sites.[9][13][14] Indigenous groups and academics have dismissed claims of a "mass grave hoax", saying that claimed discoveries of mass graves were present in a minority of stories published by mainstream media and that there had been public misinterpretation of what had actually been announced in 2021.[15 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_gravesites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_sc... It sounds like the "mass" part of the "mass graves" is disputed, and there's motte-and-bailey on both sides (eg. "you must think nobody/bazillion died in residential schools") muddying the dispute.
Steven420 11mo ago
Only four supposed mass graves have been investigated and all four found no bodies. There is no credible evidence that says there are mass graves
- pcthrowaway 11mo ago
  It wasn't exactly a "hoax" though, more like sensationalized reporting. Like "so-and-so identified a site where we believe there could be bodies buried" turned into "mass grave uncovered" Some potential burial sites were investigated, no bodies were found. Unmarked graves in association with residential schools certainly have been found in Canada, and since proving a negative in regards to these claims is untenable, the media is generally reluctant to say "see, there were no mass graves after all"
  - Steven420 11mo ago
    Where have unmarked residential school graves been found? Also investigating other supposed grave sites have been disallowed by their respective tribes
    - pcthrowaway 11mo ago
      Here's one from Saskatchewan for example: https://web.archive.org/web/20170408082324/http://www.sicc.sk.ca/archive/saskindian/a75sep3006.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20170408082324/http://www.sicc.s...
pyuser583 11mo ago
How do you feel about Quillette? https://quillette.com/2025/02/27/four-years-zero-graves-now-what/ https://quillette.com/2025/02/27/four-years-zero-graves-now-...
- gruez 11mo ago
  >[Quillette] has been described as libertarian-leaning;[2][3][4] the Columbia Journalism Review called Quillette "the right wing's highly influential answer to Slate",[5] and it has been criticized as an "anti-PC soapbox"[6] and for being "reflexively contrarian".[7] People who were skeptical at The Fraser Institute are probably also skeptical of Quillette

evanjrowley 11mo ago

If you seek it out, you will video footage of pogroms from that conflict. Not the exact circumstances as described in the article, but killings were very real.

ignoramous 11mo ago

> fraserinstitute.org/commentary/no-evidence-of-ma... You've a gripe with outrage and yet... I mean, any think tank can write anything they think and post it to the interwebs. Here's the other side's perspective: Since the confirmation of community knowledge of suspected unmarked graves in Kamloops, First Nations across Canada have located evidence of the remains of more than 2,300 children in suspected unmarked graves at or near former residential schools and Indian hospitals, according to the report. But the unauthorized visits to the site are the work of a "core group" of Canadians who continue to deny, defend or minimize the physical, sexual, psychological and emotional abuse inflicted on Indigenous children in the Indian Residential School System "despite the indisputable evidence of survivors and their families," Murray said at a Friday news conference. Denialism and disrespect exacerbate the pain and trauma of survivors and community members trying to grieve and search the grave sites. "Denialism is violence. Denialism is calculated. Denialism is harmful. Denialism is hate," Murray said. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/denialists-tried-to-access-unmarked-gravesite-tkemlups-report-1.6879980 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/denialists-t...

smithoc 11mo ago
So there is no actual evidence, and you're committing a hate crime if you ask to see evidence or point out that there's no evidence. If a white person has a drunk uncle or crazy aunt tell a wild conspiracy theory at a family gathering, people dismiss them as a kook. But if an indigenous person does the same thing, it's supposed to be treated as sacred cultural knowledge being passed down? I have an uncle who swears there are thousands of people who've been killed by Bill and Hillary Clinton. He has lists and websites and links to obituaries about deaths "deemed suicides" or "not investigated" or "unsolved". I don't think that my skepticism about his claims is violence or hate.
- ignoramous 11mo ago
  > I don't think that my skepticism about his claims is violence or hate. You realise the investigations are on-going after the initial community-led assessments done with remote sensing tech like GPRs (ground penetrating radars)? This is where this denialism takes an ugly turn. > If a white person has a drunk uncle or crazy aunt tell a wild conspiracy theory at a family gathering, people dismiss them as a kook. I mean, new Holocaust mass graves are still being discovered as institutions keep their investigations up using GPRs! You deny those graves, too? Sure Holocaust denialism is filled with "kooks" unto itself, but surely, we're not those kooks? https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327194663_Holocaust_Archaeology_Using_Ground_Penetrating_Radar_to_Locate_a_Jewish_Mass_Grave_in_Kaunas_Lithuania https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327194663_Holocaust...

jalapenof 11mo ago

[dead]