3 ms·

Don't forget magic links in email for auth and password resets training people that it's OK to click links in emails. Yes, we've (the software industry) been t

Don't forget magic links in email for auth and password resets training people that it's OK to click links in emails. Yes, we've (the software industry) been training people to practice poor OpSec for a very long time, so it's not surprising at all that corporate cybersecurity training is largely ineffective. We violate our own rules all the time

wholinator2 1y ago
Has anyone invented an alternative to that yet? I could imagine emailing you a code to enter in a specific part of a site to get you to the right link, but then people could just scan all the codes. To solve that you could make the codes long 64bit strings but then that's too hard to remember so you could just provide functionality to automatically include that info to get you to the site but then that's just a link again. Maybe if you expected everyone to copy-paste the info into the form? That might work
- aeternum 1y ago
  This is the closest I've seen (pretty new): https://github.com/WICG/email-verification-protocol https://github.com/WICG/email-verification-protocol
  - rapind 1y ago
    I recently discovered that Microsofts SSO doesn't guarantee email veracity. Basically you can spoof emails via ActiveDirectory, so if a site supports Microsoft's SSO and doesn't do a second verification, then someone could login to your site with someone else's email. I mean, what's the point of their SSO if you're just going to need to verify it with an email code anyways?
- miiiiiike 1y ago
  It’s easier/more complicated than that. Use 6 digit codes, tied to a specific reset session, with only 3 attempts allowed per-session, and sessions lasting only 5 minutes.
- kakacik 1y ago
  Don't allow HTML rendering of <a> element where href links to another URL than shown, don't allow any (java)scripts to run, or at least give user a warning that he is about top open a new window into domain XYZ. This is how I found out quite a few scams (apart from obvious ones with improper wording or visual formatting, but those are on purpose so bad to catch only most unskilled or gullible, ie your grandma)
Razengan 1y ago
There should be a way to tell you who I am without telling you who I am. Phone/laptop based biometrics?
- thewebguyd 1y ago
  I think this is the way forward. We shouldn't continue relying on email (or proving ownership over an email address for that matter) as identity. Public/private keys with a second factor (like biometrics) as identity I think is a good option. A way to announce who you are, without actually revealing your identity (or your email address). Tbh that's how all the age verification crap should work too for the countries that want to go down that road instead of having people upload a copy of their actual ID to some random service that is 100% guaranteed going to get breached and leaked. We need psuedoanonymous verification
- disillusioned 1y ago
  Isn't that what a passkey is intended to be? If I want to use a passkey on my phone, I have to bio authenticate into it. Similarly, with Windows Hello as a passkey provider, via my camera scanner. It works well and is pretty seamless, all things considered. I prefer it to the email/code/magic link method.
  - DANmode 1y ago
    It’s how I’ve been using physical keys over the same protocol for years, mhmm.
- edoceo 1y ago
  pGP signature?
  - dredmorbius 1y ago
    An unblemished 34 year record of failing mainstream adoption. (I've had at least one PGP/GPG key for the past quarter century or so myself.)
- 1y ago
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
Sophira 1y ago
About 10 years ago, I got an email from Microsoft of all people(!) which to any reasonably security-trained person would look entirely like a phishing email:[0] 1. It said "Dear User" instead of a name/username; 2. It talked about how they were upgrading their forum software and as such would require me to re-login; 3. It gave me a link to click in the email without any stated alternative; 4. It warned me that if I didn't do this, I would no longer be able to access the forum; 5. The domain of the URL that the link went to was not microsoft.com, but a different domain that had "microsoft" in it. It was a textbook example for how a phishing email would look, and yet it was actually a legitimate email from Microsoft! I haven't had any others like it since, but that was an eye-opener for sure. [0] https://reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/32ou4z/microsoft_what_happened_to_telling_people_not_to/ https://reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/32ou4z/microsoft_what... [Edit: Fixed a detail I misremembered.]

wholinator2 1y ago

Has anyone invented an alternative to that yet? I could imagine emailing you a code to enter in a specific part of a site to get you to the right link, but then people could just scan all the codes. To solve that you could make the codes long 64bit strings but then that's too hard to remember so you could just provide functionality to automatically include that info to get you to the site but then that's just a link again. Maybe if you expected everyone to copy-paste the info into the form? That might work

aeternum 1y ago
This is the closest I've seen (pretty new): https://github.com/WICG/email-verification-protocol https://github.com/WICG/email-verification-protocol
- rapind 1y ago
  I recently discovered that Microsofts SSO doesn't guarantee email veracity. Basically you can spoof emails via ActiveDirectory, so if a site supports Microsoft's SSO and doesn't do a second verification, then someone could login to your site with someone else's email. I mean, what's the point of their SSO if you're just going to need to verify it with an email code anyways?
miiiiiike 1y ago
It’s easier/more complicated than that. Use 6 digit codes, tied to a specific reset session, with only 3 attempts allowed per-session, and sessions lasting only 5 minutes.
kakacik 1y ago
Don't allow HTML rendering of <a> element where href links to another URL than shown, don't allow any (java)scripts to run, or at least give user a warning that he is about top open a new window into domain XYZ. This is how I found out quite a few scams (apart from obvious ones with improper wording or visual formatting, but those are on purpose so bad to catch only most unskilled or gullible, ie your grandma)

Razengan 1y ago

There should be a way to tell you who I am without telling you who I am. Phone/laptop based biometrics?

thewebguyd 1y ago
I think this is the way forward. We shouldn't continue relying on email (or proving ownership over an email address for that matter) as identity. Public/private keys with a second factor (like biometrics) as identity I think is a good option. A way to announce who you are, without actually revealing your identity (or your email address). Tbh that's how all the age verification crap should work too for the countries that want to go down that road instead of having people upload a copy of their actual ID to some random service that is 100% guaranteed going to get breached and leaked. We need psuedoanonymous verification
disillusioned 1y ago
Isn't that what a passkey is intended to be? If I want to use a passkey on my phone, I have to bio authenticate into it. Similarly, with Windows Hello as a passkey provider, via my camera scanner. It works well and is pretty seamless, all things considered. I prefer it to the email/code/magic link method.
- DANmode 1y ago
  It’s how I’ve been using physical keys over the same protocol for years, mhmm.
edoceo 1y ago
pGP signature?
- dredmorbius 1y ago
  An unblemished 34 year record of failing mainstream adoption. (I've had at least one PGP/GPG key for the past quarter century or so myself.)
1y ago

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

Sophira 1y ago

About 10 years ago, I got an email from Microsoft of all people(!) which to any reasonably security-trained person would look entirely like a phishing email:[0] 1. It said "Dear User" instead of a name/username; 2. It talked about how they were upgrading their forum software and as such would require me to re-login; 3. It gave me a link to click in the email without any stated alternative; 4. It warned me that if I didn't do this, I would no longer be able to access the forum; 5. The domain of the URL that the link went to was not microsoft.com, but a different domain that had "microsoft" in it. It was a textbook example for how a phishing email would look, and yet it was actually a legitimate email from Microsoft! I haven't had any others like it since, but that was an eye-opener for sure. [0] https://reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/32ou4z/microsoft_what_happened_to_telling_people_not_to/ https://reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/32ou4z/microsoft_what... [Edit: Fixed a detail I misremembered.]