3 ms·

One in my state is solar panel legislation. You can't install solar panels in AZ without a permit and building plans and roof plans. That's all well and good

One in my state is solar panel legislation. You can't install solar panels in AZ without a permit and building plans and roof plans. That's all well and good in the city, but here in bumfuck nowhere I built a house with no building plans or roof plans. Why exactly did the majority of city dwellers pass this law without even considering people like me in bumfuck nowhere, who have as much or higher utility for solar panels than even those in urban areas, need to have this regulation? The answer is they didn't even think about us, they just did it. Now I can't install solar panels without producing a bunch of extra paperwork that city dwellers just assumed everyone already has on hand because in the city you're required to file those when you build the house. Due to that and other rules that are half-cocked consideration for rural counties that don't inspect literally anything else, they basically made it the hardest to put solar in the places where it is most practical and has the most impact.

potato3732842 1y ago
Literally everything even vaguely construction-ish is rife with crap like this. It would be one thing if people were actually asking for this regulation because they wanted it. They're mostly not. The trade groups, the professional organizations, the big industry players, they push it and the legislature just writes it knowing full well that the "lives somewhere with good schools" part of their electorate will go to bat for just about any regulation, the landlords can mostly afford it and tenants don't see the true cost. This just leaves the few non-wealthy homeowners (mostly in rural areas where homes are still cheap-ish) and slumlords to complain and so the legislature knows they have nothing to fear at election time. I don't even live somewhere rural. I live in a proper city. It's just poor enough that stupid rules like that are a massive drag on everyone who wants to do anything. It's hard to amortize needless BS into whatever it is you're doing when the local populace can't afford it.
hattmall 1y ago
But who in bumfuck is going to stop you exactly? Are you talking about a grid-tie system, where you feedback to the power company? My experience in rural areas is that after the initial approval for utilities if needed, no one is coming back to inspect anything.
- mothballed 1y ago
  Oh the power company doesn't care. But counties use satellites to find solar panels or other unpermitted installations. If it's not noticeable via satellite imagery then yeah, probably nothing will happen.
  - QuercusMax 1y ago
    Why is your rural county spending resources to find these unpermitted installations? Sounds like you should vote for better local representatives who don't do stuff you dislike.
    - giantg2 1y ago
      To charge fines, I'm sure. But even if it wasn't your local government, insurance companies do this sort of thing to deny claims even in tangentially related unapproved installations.
PaulDavisThe1st 1y ago
> The answer is they didn't even think about us, they just did it. Asserted without evidence. Many parts of the USA until sometime in the 1980s had no building codes. Now many of them do (some still go without). Society has made a slow and steady move towards saying, in effect "whatever and wherever you build, we want to be certain that it meets a set of minimum design and construction standards, and we justify this with both public safety (fire, for example) and the interests of anyone who may acquire what you built in the future". You can say, if you like, that this is bullshit. But don't try to claim that they didn't even think about you. p.s. I live in rural New Mexico and installed my own solar panels, under license from the state.
- mothballed 1y ago
  The state has no law about me connecting to the electric grid without any building plans, drawings, or inspection. In fact I did so. That's more connected to others than solar panels are. Just solar panels. They simply forgot. FYI i built the house after the solar panel law passed. So it's not like it's an old house that needs brought up to modern code or something.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 1y ago
    Solar panels are generators that backfeed the line. Power utilities are going to take every opportunity to discourage/prevent/penalize the connection of generators to their lines. Connecting your house to the grid poses more or less no threat to the grid or the linemen who work on it.
    - mothballed 1y ago
      What does that have to roof plans and [structural] building plans? You know, the things I called out. I've never claimed there is a city/rural contrasting point of relevance on documenting the electrical generation capacity of the solar panels.
      - PaulDavisThe1st 1y ago

potato3732842 1y ago

Literally everything even vaguely construction-ish is rife with crap like this. It would be one thing if people were actually asking for this regulation because they wanted it. They're mostly not. The trade groups, the professional organizations, the big industry players, they push it and the legislature just writes it knowing full well that the "lives somewhere with good schools" part of their electorate will go to bat for just about any regulation, the landlords can mostly afford it and tenants don't see the true cost. This just leaves the few non-wealthy homeowners (mostly in rural areas where homes are still cheap-ish) and slumlords to complain and so the legislature knows they have nothing to fear at election time. I don't even live somewhere rural. I live in a proper city. It's just poor enough that stupid rules like that are a massive drag on everyone who wants to do anything. It's hard to amortize needless BS into whatever it is you're doing when the local populace can't afford it.

hattmall 1y ago

But who in bumfuck is going to stop you exactly? Are you talking about a grid-tie system, where you feedback to the power company? My experience in rural areas is that after the initial approval for utilities if needed, no one is coming back to inspect anything.

mothballed 1y ago
Oh the power company doesn't care. But counties use satellites to find solar panels or other unpermitted installations. If it's not noticeable via satellite imagery then yeah, probably nothing will happen.
- QuercusMax 1y ago
  Why is your rural county spending resources to find these unpermitted installations? Sounds like you should vote for better local representatives who don't do stuff you dislike.
  - giantg2 1y ago
    To charge fines, I'm sure. But even if it wasn't your local government, insurance companies do this sort of thing to deny claims even in tangentially related unapproved installations.

PaulDavisThe1st 1y ago

> The answer is they didn't even think about us, they just did it. Asserted without evidence. Many parts of the USA until sometime in the 1980s had no building codes. Now many of them do (some still go without). Society has made a slow and steady move towards saying, in effect "whatever and wherever you build, we want to be certain that it meets a set of minimum design and construction standards, and we justify this with both public safety (fire, for example) and the interests of anyone who may acquire what you built in the future". You can say, if you like, that this is bullshit. But don't try to claim that they didn't even think about you. p.s. I live in rural New Mexico and installed my own solar panels, under license from the state.

mothballed 1y ago
The state has no law about me connecting to the electric grid without any building plans, drawings, or inspection. In fact I did so. That's more connected to others than solar panels are. Just solar panels. They simply forgot. FYI i built the house after the solar panel law passed. So it's not like it's an old house that needs brought up to modern code or something.
- PaulDavisThe1st 1y ago
  Solar panels are generators that backfeed the line. Power utilities are going to take every opportunity to discourage/prevent/penalize the connection of generators to their lines. Connecting your house to the grid poses more or less no threat to the grid or the linemen who work on it.
  - mothballed 1y ago
    What does that have to roof plans and [structural] building plans? You know, the things I called out. I've never claimed there is a city/rural contrasting point of relevance on documenting the electrical generation capacity of the solar panels.
    - PaulDavisThe1st 1y ago