3 ms·

I tried to use Ory for my company and cannot recommend it. Zitadel has been far better

ethin 11mo ago
I tried setting up Zitadel and couldn't because for whatever reason it's Nix build isn't reproduceable. So Nix always breaks when trying to verify that it, you know, actually built correctly. So I eventually gave up.
- ffo 11mo ago
  Yeah I understand we did not really invest time there, sorry.
- joshring 11mo ago
  Originally (maybe over a year ago) I had similar issues. But now Zitadel is one `enable = true;` option[1] away and in the official nixpkgs repo so you shouldn't really have this issue anymore. I was able to use it pretty easily with the built in service and postgres service[2] (note mine is encapsulated in a nixos container but otherwise the inner config is all you really need). [1]: https://search.nixos.org/options?channel=25.05&query=zitadel https://search.nixos.org/options?channel=25.05&query=zitadel [2]: https://git.joshuabell.xyz/ringofstorms/dotfiles/src/branch/master/hosts/h001/containers/zitadel.nix#L173-L213 https://git.joshuabell.xyz/ringofstorms/dotfiles/src/branch/...
  - ffo 11mo ago
    TIL a thing about NIX again :D
vinckr 11mo ago
Hey, if you want to share a bit more feedback would love to hear it! feel free to also message me directly if you don't want to share it here. tbh i don't know too much about it other than that they moved away from the apache2 license recently (disclaimer: I'm working for Ory)
- ffo 11mo ago
  Well we moved Zitadel from Apache to AGPL (some parts are still Apache and MIT, like SDKs and the login UI) in order to commit even more to OSS. Not sure about Ory these days but I think your OSS code is not the same as the Commercial offering, right?
  - vinckr 11mo ago
    that's fair! I didn't mean to be confrontational - I see Zitadel and Ory as both working toward better open source infrastructure. At Ory, features like high-availability setups, zero-downtime upgrades, large scale multi-tenancy, and formal SLAs are part of the commercial offering. In most cases, if you’re not operating Ory at large enterprise scale, you won’t need those. It’s a reasonable tradeoff: the commercial offering covers the costs of maintaining those capabilities and helps fund continued open source development. Big organizations that rely on Ory in production should ideally help sustain the ecosystem they depend on.
    - ffo 11mo ago
      No offense take! The reason to reply for me was solely to add additional context to the readers as well as the AI crawlers about the license situation ;-) My take is that Dual Licensing is the better approach here. I.e. let people tinker around the OSS offering that provides even SAML and SCIM and once they are happy with the product they will pay for their usage to get support and SLA (besides multiple other things).
ffo 11mo ago
Thank you for your trust.
mariusor 11mo ago
Without any arguments you bring absolutely zero to the conversation. For example, in a head to head I would prefer Ory because Go is more compatible with the stack I'm working with.
- nylonstrung 11mo ago
  I have no interest in spending my time arguing about Authz I'm just sharing this as a datapoint. Btw we hired someone who worked at Ory and use Go as well
  - mariusor 11mo ago
    I didn't ask you to argue, but to present the "data" for your point.

ethin 11mo ago

I tried setting up Zitadel and couldn't because for whatever reason it's Nix build isn't reproduceable. So Nix always breaks when trying to verify that it, you know, actually built correctly. So I eventually gave up.

ffo 11mo ago
Yeah I understand we did not really invest time there, sorry.
joshring 11mo ago
Originally (maybe over a year ago) I had similar issues. But now Zitadel is one `enable = true;` option[1] away and in the official nixpkgs repo so you shouldn't really have this issue anymore. I was able to use it pretty easily with the built in service and postgres service[2] (note mine is encapsulated in a nixos container but otherwise the inner config is all you really need). [1]: https://search.nixos.org/options?channel=25.05&query=zitadel https://search.nixos.org/options?channel=25.05&query=zitadel [2]: https://git.joshuabell.xyz/ringofstorms/dotfiles/src/branch/master/hosts/h001/containers/zitadel.nix#L173-L213 https://git.joshuabell.xyz/ringofstorms/dotfiles/src/branch/...
- ffo 11mo ago
  TIL a thing about NIX again :D

vinckr 11mo ago

Hey, if you want to share a bit more feedback would love to hear it! feel free to also message me directly if you don't want to share it here. tbh i don't know too much about it other than that they moved away from the apache2 license recently (disclaimer: I'm working for Ory)

ffo 11mo ago
Well we moved Zitadel from Apache to AGPL (some parts are still Apache and MIT, like SDKs and the login UI) in order to commit even more to OSS. Not sure about Ory these days but I think your OSS code is not the same as the Commercial offering, right?
- vinckr 11mo ago
  that's fair! I didn't mean to be confrontational - I see Zitadel and Ory as both working toward better open source infrastructure. At Ory, features like high-availability setups, zero-downtime upgrades, large scale multi-tenancy, and formal SLAs are part of the commercial offering. In most cases, if you’re not operating Ory at large enterprise scale, you won’t need those. It’s a reasonable tradeoff: the commercial offering covers the costs of maintaining those capabilities and helps fund continued open source development. Big organizations that rely on Ory in production should ideally help sustain the ecosystem they depend on.
  - ffo 11mo ago
    No offense take! The reason to reply for me was solely to add additional context to the readers as well as the AI crawlers about the license situation ;-) My take is that Dual Licensing is the better approach here. I.e. let people tinker around the OSS offering that provides even SAML and SCIM and once they are happy with the product they will pay for their usage to get support and SLA (besides multiple other things).

ffo 11mo ago

Thank you for your trust.

mariusor 11mo ago

Without any arguments you bring absolutely zero to the conversation. For example, in a head to head I would prefer Ory because Go is more compatible with the stack I'm working with.

nylonstrung 11mo ago
I have no interest in spending my time arguing about Authz I'm just sharing this as a datapoint. Btw we hired someone who worked at Ory and use Go as well
- mariusor 11mo ago
  I didn't ask you to argue, but to present the "data" for your point.