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> how did this pass safety standards In the US, the safety standards consider only the occupants of the car. The safety of pedestrians, cyclists, and occupants

> how did this pass safety standards In the US, the safety standards consider only the occupants of the car. The safety of pedestrians, cyclists, and occupants of other cars are not considered. This was looking like it would change but with the current administration I doubt it. The Cybertruck is not legal in Europe and anywhere else with actual safety standards.

guitarbill 11mo ago
Downvote or not, it's true: > NHTSA conducts frontal, side and rollover tests because these types account for the majority of crashes on America's roadways. > IIHS tests evaluate two aspects of safety: crashworthiness — how well a vehicle protects its occupants in a crash — and crash avoidance and mitigation — technology that can prevent a crash or lessen its severity. > As well as assessing how well cars protect their occupants, Euro NCAP tests how well they protect those vulnerable road users – pedestrians and cyclists – with whom they might collide.
- soared 11mo ago
  NHTSA outlawed hood ornaments purely for pedestrian safety, so it’s not 100% correct.
  - hamdingers 11mo ago
    One thing for pedestrians in 1968 and nothing since then. I'd say that's four, maybe five nines of correctness.
- potato3732842 11mo ago
  That's misleading. They don't test for pedestrian safety as part of the normal tests. But they test for it generally, not specific to any model and use those results to inform their rules about what can and can't be sold. Same story with rollover testing. This is why hood ornaments mostly died and flip up headlights fully died. The NHTSA doesn't write rules that ban specific features. You can do anything it meets the requirements. You can make brake hoses out of woven spaghetti if you want. It'll probably cost you a lot to get them to a performance point where they meet the rules though. Furthermore, the NHTSA doesn't do most testing. The testing must be done and the testing needs to meet NHTSA standards but the OEMs are free to DIY it or outsource.
  - guitarbill 11mo ago
    > Same story with rollover testing. That's for occupants. > Furthermore, the NHTSA doesn't do most testing. Which is why I quoted IIHS and other non-US testing. > NHTSA standards Which standards are for e.g. pedestrian safety? The hood ornament thing? > That's misleading. They don't test for pedestrian safety as part of the normal tests. But they test for it generally No, it isn't and no they didn't/don't. E.g. GAO report from 2020 [0]: > NHTSA’s last substantial update of NCAP was in July 2008 (with changes effective for model year 2011 vehicles). This update established additional crash tests and technical standards to protect vehicle occupants, but did not include pedestrian safety tests. Or from NHTSA itself in 2022 [1], although note this is a "proposal" and "recommendations": > For the first time ever, NCAP includes technology recommendations not only for drivers and passengers but for road users outside the vehicle, like pedestrians. The proposal [...]. We look forward to reviewing the comments we receive and considering them as we complete this important work.” They will/might, by adopting Euro NCAP [2]: > This final decision notice adds a crashworthiness pedestrian protection program to the New Car Assessment Program (NCAP) to evaluate new model year vehicles’ abilities to mitigate pedestrian injuries. Based on its previous research, NHTSA concurs with and adopts most of the European New Car Assessment Programme’s (Euro NCAP) pedestrian crashworthiness assessment methods [...] > These changes to the New Car Assessment Program are effective for the 2026 model year. But as of yet, this does not appear on their NCAP ratings: https://www.nhtsa.gov/ratings/resources-related-nhtsas-new-car-assessment-program https://www.nhtsa.gov/ratings/resources-related-nhtsas-new-c... [0]: https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-20-419.pdf https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-20-419.pdf [1]: https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/five-star-safety-ratings-program-updates-proposed https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/five-star-safety-rating... [2]: https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/2024-11/NCAP-Final-Decision-Notice-Crashworthiness-Pedestrian-Protection-11182024-web.pdf https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/2024-11/NCAP-Fin...
chrisco255 11mo ago
[flagged]
- wrigby 11mo ago
  What about if you’re hit at 10mph? Of course any crash at 55 is fatal for a cyclist, but most impacts with cyclists don’t occur at highway speeds.
- LoganDark 11mo ago
  The Cybertruck also bursts into flames, has body panels that fall off, and has an accelerator pedal that can spontaneously disassemble itself into getting jammed in the floored position. (I think they eventually fixed the accelerator pedal thing. Still a super bad look.) Also, if you get hit by a Cybertruck at 55mph, the sharp angles are going to cut you far deeper than a Mini Cooper would. You're not going to walk away from it either way, but you're probably more likely to perish from the Cybertruck. (That doesn't stop me from wanting a Cybertruck but that's just because it's cool in other ways. I don't know if I'd want one to be my daily driver, but it is very cool.)
- DanHulton 11mo ago
  There are more situations than just "a 55mph head-on crash" that need to be considered. What about getting clipped at 5mph when the driver is turning, and on a Cybertruck you've now got a brutal gash dug into you. And a camera that covers a full 360 isn't really all that useful when you're making a normal turn and not looking at the camera, but have your normal vision heavily obscured by the massive frame. It's not perfectly safe. If it were, it would be legal everywhere and it's not.
- amarant 11mo ago
  The reason it's not allowed in European roads is that the cold rolled steel is too hard, and the edges are too sharp. At 55mph perhaps this doesn't matter, but most vehicle-pedestrian collisions occur at far lower speeds than that, and then it absolutely does matter. I self identify as a Tesla fanboy, the model Y is the best car in the world in my opinion, but even I have to admit the cybertruck has several fatal flaws and just isn't a good vehicle. On paper it has a bunch of things going for it, for example it is (as far as I know) the cheapest fully electric vehicle with air suspension. In practice it all falls apart (both literally and figuratively) I wish Tesla would try again and build a new truck, without the cyber and the cold rolled stainless steel. Stick to the design language of the other Tesla models this time. Let Franz do his thing.

guitarbill 11mo ago

Downvote or not, it's true: > NHTSA conducts frontal, side and rollover tests because these types account for the majority of crashes on America's roadways. > IIHS tests evaluate two aspects of safety: crashworthiness — how well a vehicle protects its occupants in a crash — and crash avoidance and mitigation — technology that can prevent a crash or lessen its severity. > As well as assessing how well cars protect their occupants, Euro NCAP tests how well they protect those vulnerable road users – pedestrians and cyclists – with whom they might collide.

soared 11mo ago
NHTSA outlawed hood ornaments purely for pedestrian safety, so it’s not 100% correct.
- hamdingers 11mo ago
  One thing for pedestrians in 1968 and nothing since then. I'd say that's four, maybe five nines of correctness.
potato3732842 11mo ago
That's misleading. They don't test for pedestrian safety as part of the normal tests. But they test for it generally, not specific to any model and use those results to inform their rules about what can and can't be sold. Same story with rollover testing. This is why hood ornaments mostly died and flip up headlights fully died. The NHTSA doesn't write rules that ban specific features. You can do anything it meets the requirements. You can make brake hoses out of woven spaghetti if you want. It'll probably cost you a lot to get them to a performance point where they meet the rules though. Furthermore, the NHTSA doesn't do most testing. The testing must be done and the testing needs to meet NHTSA standards but the OEMs are free to DIY it or outsource.
- guitarbill 11mo ago
  > Same story with rollover testing. That's for occupants. > Furthermore, the NHTSA doesn't do most testing. Which is why I quoted IIHS and other non-US testing. > NHTSA standards Which standards are for e.g. pedestrian safety? The hood ornament thing? > That's misleading. They don't test for pedestrian safety as part of the normal tests. But they test for it generally No, it isn't and no they didn't/don't. E.g. GAO report from 2020 [0]: > NHTSA’s last substantial update of NCAP was in July 2008 (with changes effective for model year 2011 vehicles). This update established additional crash tests and technical standards to protect vehicle occupants, but did not include pedestrian safety tests. Or from NHTSA itself in 2022 [1], although note this is a "proposal" and "recommendations": > For the first time ever, NCAP includes technology recommendations not only for drivers and passengers but for road users outside the vehicle, like pedestrians. The proposal [...]. We look forward to reviewing the comments we receive and considering them as we complete this important work.” They will/might, by adopting Euro NCAP [2]: > This final decision notice adds a crashworthiness pedestrian protection program to the New Car Assessment Program (NCAP) to evaluate new model year vehicles’ abilities to mitigate pedestrian injuries. Based on its previous research, NHTSA concurs with and adopts most of the European New Car Assessment Programme’s (Euro NCAP) pedestrian crashworthiness assessment methods [...] > These changes to the New Car Assessment Program are effective for the 2026 model year. But as of yet, this does not appear on their NCAP ratings: https://www.nhtsa.gov/ratings/resources-related-nhtsas-new-car-assessment-program https://www.nhtsa.gov/ratings/resources-related-nhtsas-new-c... [0]: https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-20-419.pdf https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-20-419.pdf [1]: https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/five-star-safety-ratings-program-updates-proposed https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/five-star-safety-rating... [2]: https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/2024-11/NCAP-Final-Decision-Notice-Crashworthiness-Pedestrian-Protection-11182024-web.pdf https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/2024-11/NCAP-Fin...

chrisco255 11mo ago

[flagged]

wrigby 11mo ago
What about if you’re hit at 10mph? Of course any crash at 55 is fatal for a cyclist, but most impacts with cyclists don’t occur at highway speeds.
LoganDark 11mo ago
The Cybertruck also bursts into flames, has body panels that fall off, and has an accelerator pedal that can spontaneously disassemble itself into getting jammed in the floored position. (I think they eventually fixed the accelerator pedal thing. Still a super bad look.) Also, if you get hit by a Cybertruck at 55mph, the sharp angles are going to cut you far deeper than a Mini Cooper would. You're not going to walk away from it either way, but you're probably more likely to perish from the Cybertruck. (That doesn't stop me from wanting a Cybertruck but that's just because it's cool in other ways. I don't know if I'd want one to be my daily driver, but it is very cool.)
DanHulton 11mo ago
There are more situations than just "a 55mph head-on crash" that need to be considered. What about getting clipped at 5mph when the driver is turning, and on a Cybertruck you've now got a brutal gash dug into you. And a camera that covers a full 360 isn't really all that useful when you're making a normal turn and not looking at the camera, but have your normal vision heavily obscured by the massive frame. It's not perfectly safe. If it were, it would be legal everywhere and it's not.
amarant 11mo ago
The reason it's not allowed in European roads is that the cold rolled steel is too hard, and the edges are too sharp. At 55mph perhaps this doesn't matter, but most vehicle-pedestrian collisions occur at far lower speeds than that, and then it absolutely does matter. I self identify as a Tesla fanboy, the model Y is the best car in the world in my opinion, but even I have to admit the cybertruck has several fatal flaws and just isn't a good vehicle. On paper it has a bunch of things going for it, for example it is (as far as I know) the cheapest fully electric vehicle with air suspension. In practice it all falls apart (both literally and figuratively) I wish Tesla would try again and build a new truck, without the cyber and the cold rolled stainless steel. Stick to the design language of the other Tesla models this time. Let Franz do his thing.