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What happens if signalling or mechanical failures occur and manual intervention is required? I will collapse the network, that’s why you see conductor-less oper

by rmoriz 11mo ago

What happens if signalling or mechanical failures occur and manual intervention is required? I will collapse the network, that’s why you see conductor-less operation only in separated environments, like subways (Nürnberg) or DLR (London)

Starlevel004 11mo ago
Even the DLR has drivers onboard to take over in an emergency.
bluGill 11mo ago
Drivers cannot do much to in those cases anyway. Hit the emergency stop and wait for the mechanic. - computers can do the same thing The better answer is do maintenance such that you don't have those failures in the first place.
- noir_lord 11mo ago
  We had a mass attack on a train recently, the driver radioed ahead and got his train shifted onto a different line so he could stop the train at the nearest station (which had a police station across the road). That's the kind of thing that is hard to automate because while you can automate any routine operation (eventually) it's the none routine things that get you. Planes and Trains have both had increasing levels of automation for decades and that's fantastic, humans are flawed/get tired/get distracted but you still need a human in the loop who can decide what to do when the unknown/unexpected happens and for that human to be effective they need to be able to operate large parts of the vehicle without the automation and understand the basic principles of the system as a whole well enough to decide what they should do that won't make the situation worse. In planes that's the Pilot in Command, in Trains it's the driver.
- VBprogrammer 11mo ago
  Anyone with even a rudimentary understanding of railway operations knows that this isn't at all true. For example, I've been on a Glasgow bound train where the driver was instructed to pass the signal at danger following a lengthy signoff process. Some scallywags had stolen wire for copper.
  - rmoriz 11mo ago
    this. Railway signalling is a complex topic and totally different in Europa vs. the US. ETCS is another big step forward in terms of automation, but we don't see driverless trains. In Germany we have Linienzugbeeinflussung (LZB) since 1959 in tests and 1963 in early real life operations. LZB enforces dynamic train separation, speed limits and breaking but does not implement full automation. ETCS is the successor which does not require a cable in between the rails but balises.

by rmoriz 11mo ago

Starlevel004 11mo ago

Even the DLR has drivers onboard to take over in an emergency.

bluGill 11mo ago

Drivers cannot do much to in those cases anyway. Hit the emergency stop and wait for the mechanic. - computers can do the same thing The better answer is do maintenance such that you don't have those failures in the first place.

noir_lord 11mo ago
We had a mass attack on a train recently, the driver radioed ahead and got his train shifted onto a different line so he could stop the train at the nearest station (which had a police station across the road). That's the kind of thing that is hard to automate because while you can automate any routine operation (eventually) it's the none routine things that get you. Planes and Trains have both had increasing levels of automation for decades and that's fantastic, humans are flawed/get tired/get distracted but you still need a human in the loop who can decide what to do when the unknown/unexpected happens and for that human to be effective they need to be able to operate large parts of the vehicle without the automation and understand the basic principles of the system as a whole well enough to decide what they should do that won't make the situation worse. In planes that's the Pilot in Command, in Trains it's the driver.
VBprogrammer 11mo ago
Anyone with even a rudimentary understanding of railway operations knows that this isn't at all true. For example, I've been on a Glasgow bound train where the driver was instructed to pass the signal at danger following a lengthy signoff process. Some scallywags had stolen wire for copper.
- rmoriz 11mo ago
  this. Railway signalling is a complex topic and totally different in Europa vs. the US. ETCS is another big step forward in terms of automation, but we don't see driverless trains. In Germany we have Linienzugbeeinflussung (LZB) since 1959 in tests and 1963 in early real life operations. LZB enforces dynamic train separation, speed limits and breaking but does not implement full automation. ETCS is the successor which does not require a cable in between the rails but balises.