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Our Dutch one is too (privatized in 1995, it's one of our biggest employers as well), we have a nice railway system but the car is generally cheaper, even when

Our Dutch one is too (privatized in 1995, it's one of our biggest employers as well), we have a nice railway system but the car is generally cheaper, even when using it alone. It's always about how much money the railway system is loosing, but I don't see anybody crying about the money our roads are loosing. Isn't it all just transport infrastructure?

hexbin010 1y ago
Maastricht-Amsterdam, a 2.5 hour journey, day return, with NS Flex Dal Voordeel (ie off peak) is 37.44 EUR. That to me is insanely cheap. Surely fuel would be like 45 EUR, not to mention the cost of parking in Amsterdam? Maybe it's just because a similar journeys in the UK (Manchester to London) would be about 130 EUR. (Assuming I've understood correctly - you pay about 6 EUR a month for Flex Dal Voordeel and get a 40% discount right?)
- teekert 1y ago
  Yeah that's in off-hours, where you get 40% off. So that means it's much more expensive when you need to get to the office during office hours. And your office is not next to the station. Certainly there are times when it is worth it, and for example 's Hertogenbosch - Amsterdam has a train every 10 min. That is hard to beat. But NS is under a lot of pressure and will get more and more expensive and less attractive as a result.
elAhmo 1y ago
How would you quantify the money lost by roads?
- teekert 1y ago
  Same as for railroads.
  - elAhmo 1y ago
    Not even close. You can walk on a road, take a cycle, take a car. You effectively need no maintenance for the most part of it, or someone running something on it. 1 car, 1000 cars, there is no difference in 'running the road'. On the railroad it is vastly more complex, with schedules, personnel that takes to run it, how many people end up using it. If one person rides in a train, it is a disaster and you literally lose money on it. If 1000s ride on it, you might be making money. With roads that factor is almost non-existent, given that both take initial investment to build.
    - teekert 1y ago
      Roads, bridges, tunnels all need to be maintained, restored. And there is always the environmental damage that STILL has no price on it. Our Railroads are powered by "green" energy (a combination of Wind and Solar) and there is far less energy use and fine particulate production per person traveling [0] That said, the equation probably comes out different for my country (the Netherlands) and the US. The Netherlands is more like New York than the US. [0] https://www.ns.nl/over-ns/duurzaamheid/fossielvrij/groene-energie-voor-trein-bus-en-station.html https://www.ns.nl/over-ns/duurzaamheid/fossielvrij/groene-en...

hexbin010 1y ago

Maastricht-Amsterdam, a 2.5 hour journey, day return, with NS Flex Dal Voordeel (ie off peak) is 37.44 EUR. That to me is insanely cheap. Surely fuel would be like 45 EUR, not to mention the cost of parking in Amsterdam? Maybe it's just because a similar journeys in the UK (Manchester to London) would be about 130 EUR. (Assuming I've understood correctly - you pay about 6 EUR a month for Flex Dal Voordeel and get a 40% discount right?)

teekert 1y ago
Yeah that's in off-hours, where you get 40% off. So that means it's much more expensive when you need to get to the office during office hours. And your office is not next to the station. Certainly there are times when it is worth it, and for example 's Hertogenbosch - Amsterdam has a train every 10 min. That is hard to beat. But NS is under a lot of pressure and will get more and more expensive and less attractive as a result.

elAhmo 1y ago

How would you quantify the money lost by roads?

teekert 1y ago
Same as for railroads.
- elAhmo 1y ago
  Not even close. You can walk on a road, take a cycle, take a car. You effectively need no maintenance for the most part of it, or someone running something on it. 1 car, 1000 cars, there is no difference in 'running the road'. On the railroad it is vastly more complex, with schedules, personnel that takes to run it, how many people end up using it. If one person rides in a train, it is a disaster and you literally lose money on it. If 1000s ride on it, you might be making money. With roads that factor is almost non-existent, given that both take initial investment to build.
  - teekert 1y ago
    Roads, bridges, tunnels all need to be maintained, restored. And there is always the environmental damage that STILL has no price on it. Our Railroads are powered by "green" energy (a combination of Wind and Solar) and there is far less energy use and fine particulate production per person traveling [0] That said, the equation probably comes out different for my country (the Netherlands) and the US. The Netherlands is more like New York than the US. [0] https://www.ns.nl/over-ns/duurzaamheid/fossielvrij/groene-energie-voor-trein-bus-en-station.html https://www.ns.nl/over-ns/duurzaamheid/fossielvrij/groene-en...