3 ms·

It's not wrong nor misleading at all. Win32 doesn't even support dark mode properly because it's effectively "deprecated" like all the others in the graveyard.

It's not wrong nor misleading at all. Win32 doesn't even support dark mode properly because it's effectively "deprecated" like all the others in the graveyard. Who cares if they keep working if the only way to get dark mode is to custom render the whole UI yourself? Might as well do something non-native at that point. Microsoft does not provide a serious UI library for applications to use. It provides 10 half broken and deprecated ones.

jack_tripper 11mo ago
>It's not wrong nor misleading at all. Yeah it totally is and I explained why. >Who cares if they keep working A lot of people. >if the only way to get dark mode is to custom render the whole UI yourself Most the apps I use support dark mode: Chrome, FF, Notepad++, Jellyfin, Qbittorrent, SumatraPDF, Signal, Wiztree, WinSCP, and others I'm forgetting. Seems like it's not an impossible task for the developers. And on Github you can find FOSS apps[1] that have implemented light/dark mode switching for their UI, so you can just copy what they're doing if you don't know where to start. [1] https://github.com/AutoDarkMode/Windows-Auto-Night-Mode https://github.com/AutoDarkMode/Windows-Auto-Night-Mode
- sirwhinesalot 11mo ago
  Are you speaking as a user? I'm speaking as a dev. Of the applications you mentioned only a couple actually use the Win32 controls (like Notepad++) and they custom render them to get dark mode. That's a lot of extra work they had to do, essentially draw the whole look themselves. Chrome is not native. FF is not native. Qbitorrent is not native (it uses Qt, right there in the name). Signal is not native, it's a web page bundled with Chromium (aka, an Electron app). WinSCP only this year actually started using the right font! But at least that one is native I'll give you that. The GitHub you sent doesn't really have anything to do with the discussion.
simoncion 11mo ago
> Win32 doesn't even support dark mode properly because it's effectively "deprecated" like all the others in the graveyard. Remember when you used to be able to make custom Windows color schemes? Where you could color each widget type independently? I miss that. Assuming that your report is true, if Microsoft gave a shit, they'd come up with four color schemes (high-contrast light/dark mode and regular-contrast light/dark mode) for Win32 programs and sync them with the relevant "modern" settings. Alas. What do you do if you're a Win32 program who refuses to use the system color scheme? Well, I guess you'll stand out no less than you would have been in the Windows 95/98/ME days... stubbornly refusing to conform to the user's commanded colors and all that.
- sirwhinesalot 11mo ago
  I like to joke that we already had dark mode on Window 95. It didn't work super well with black colored icons but you could always just tone down how dark you made it. We also had pseudo-dark mode themes for Windows XP. But the new dark mode stuff in explorer doesn't use uxtheme anymore.
  - simoncion 11mo ago
    > I like to joke that we already had dark mode on Window 95. When I say it, it's not a joke! :D > But the new dark mode stuff in explorer doesn't use uxtheme anymore. I'm only familiar with Windows 10, and in that version Windows Explorer seemed to conform to the system color scheme just fine. Did Microsoft break that at some point in the past three, four months, [0] or did they royally fuck the dog in Windows 11? For me, the *maddening* color-scheme-nonconformance was Task Manager. No matter what I did, it was *white*. It made it substantially unpleasant when you wanted to check a performance something-or-other in a dark room. [0] Ever since I learned just how well video games work on Linux (via Steam), I've not booted into Windows. It's so nice. Folks report that there are launchers to run games in the Epic Game Store, but I've not yet bothered, so I can't provide first-hand info.
    - sirwhinesalot 11mo ago
      Windows Explorer still respects the color-scheme preference but the problem is the way it does it. When you as a dev use a Windows provided control (be it a button, a toolbar, a context menu, etc.) the system grabs the theme information from something called uxtheme. This is how it worked in Windows XP and why you had like 3 different themes you could pick from and switch between at any time, and most apps would respect the selection. But dark mode doesn't work like that, there's no uxtheme for dark mode. Windows Explorer is given special treatment by Windows with undocumented APIs. Other apps are not so lucky. If they want dark mode, they need to effectively draw the whole UI themselves. Even apps like Notepad++ have to do that these days.
      - 11mo ago

jack_tripper 11mo ago

>It's not wrong nor misleading at all. Yeah it totally is and I explained why. >Who cares if they keep working A lot of people. >if the only way to get dark mode is to custom render the whole UI yourself Most the apps I use support dark mode: Chrome, FF, Notepad++, Jellyfin, Qbittorrent, SumatraPDF, Signal, Wiztree, WinSCP, and others I'm forgetting. Seems like it's not an impossible task for the developers. And on Github you can find FOSS apps[1] that have implemented light/dark mode switching for their UI, so you can just copy what they're doing if you don't know where to start. [1] https://github.com/AutoDarkMode/Windows-Auto-Night-Mode https://github.com/AutoDarkMode/Windows-Auto-Night-Mode

sirwhinesalot 11mo ago
Are you speaking as a user? I'm speaking as a dev. Of the applications you mentioned only a couple actually use the Win32 controls (like Notepad++) and they custom render them to get dark mode. That's a lot of extra work they had to do, essentially draw the whole look themselves. Chrome is not native. FF is not native. Qbitorrent is not native (it uses Qt, right there in the name). Signal is not native, it's a web page bundled with Chromium (aka, an Electron app). WinSCP only this year actually started using the right font! But at least that one is native I'll give you that. The GitHub you sent doesn't really have anything to do with the discussion.

simoncion 11mo ago

> Win32 doesn't even support dark mode properly because it's effectively "deprecated" like all the others in the graveyard. Remember when you used to be able to make custom Windows color schemes? Where you could color each widget type independently? I miss that. Assuming that your report is true, if Microsoft gave a shit, they'd come up with four color schemes (high-contrast light/dark mode and regular-contrast light/dark mode) for Win32 programs and sync them with the relevant "modern" settings. Alas. What do you do if you're a Win32 program who refuses to use the system color scheme? Well, I guess you'll stand out no less than you would have been in the Windows 95/98/ME days... stubbornly refusing to conform to the user's commanded colors and all that.

sirwhinesalot 11mo ago
I like to joke that we already had dark mode on Window 95. It didn't work super well with black colored icons but you could always just tone down how dark you made it. We also had pseudo-dark mode themes for Windows XP. But the new dark mode stuff in explorer doesn't use uxtheme anymore.
- simoncion 11mo ago
  > I like to joke that we already had dark mode on Window 95. When I say it, it's not a joke! :D > But the new dark mode stuff in explorer doesn't use uxtheme anymore. I'm only familiar with Windows 10, and in that version Windows Explorer seemed to conform to the system color scheme just fine. Did Microsoft break that at some point in the past three, four months, [0] or did they royally fuck the dog in Windows 11? For me, the *maddening* color-scheme-nonconformance was Task Manager. No matter what I did, it was *white*. It made it substantially unpleasant when you wanted to check a performance something-or-other in a dark room. [0] Ever since I learned just how well video games work on Linux (via Steam), I've not booted into Windows. It's so nice. Folks report that there are launchers to run games in the Epic Game Store, but I've not yet bothered, so I can't provide first-hand info.
  - sirwhinesalot 11mo ago
    Windows Explorer still respects the color-scheme preference but the problem is the way it does it. When you as a dev use a Windows provided control (be it a button, a toolbar, a context menu, etc.) the system grabs the theme information from something called uxtheme. This is how it worked in Windows XP and why you had like 3 different themes you could pick from and switch between at any time, and most apps would respect the selection. But dark mode doesn't work like that, there's no uxtheme for dark mode. Windows Explorer is given special treatment by Windows with undocumented APIs. Other apps are not so lucky. If they want dark mode, they need to effectively draw the whole UI themselves. Even apps like Notepad++ have to do that these days.
    - 11mo ago