4 ms·

... You'll end up being forced into WhatsApp groups? Sounds dangerous

by herbst 11mo ago

johnisgood 11mo ago
Yeah, why not something else? There are a lot of better alternatives. Matrix (Element) although does the search functionality work yet? It sucked ass. I wonder if it works now. Even Telegram is better, then there is Signal, Briar, and XMPP, too. They are fully featured ones. If you are fine with text only, then Ricochet Refresh is the best candidate as far as privacy goes.
- herbst 11mo ago
  Most parents I know dont even allow their children WhatsApp (as you said there are safer alternatives like Signal without weird social network functions you can barely control) so why would parents use it? For me this just sounds nonsensical. I am sure it makes sense somewhere in the world
  - johnisgood 11mo ago
    I mean yeah, I'm sure it depends and varies a lot. I would feel more comfortable if they used something more privacy-oriented, and I do the same. The rest, of course, is up to me. I do not think I would be able to get my kid off the grid completely so might as well use a better alternative, and in many cases you simply just can't because you have to submit your homework through Facebook, and so forth. Thankfully it has settled down a bit post-COVID but there may still be cases of this crap. I loathe it. In any case, a privacy-oriented alternative is better than the cancerous Meta. If you want no IMs at all, well, that may be tough. Kids find a way, trust me. I know I did. :D
  - InsideOutSanta 11mo ago
    Where I live, WhatsApp is the standard. 100% of people have it installed, minus some hermits who have never heard of the Internet. My parents know how to use WhatsApp and have it installed. My sister and her family, too. My friends, their friends, the scammer trying to explain to me how to access the crypto I apparently lost track of on their platform, my former coworkers, my current coworkers, the people I interact with for my freelance work, the government's road safety alerts, my ex-girlfriend who still has a bunch of my clothes, my neighborhthey areood group informing me when I need to put out the trash-they're all on WhatsApp. It's the network effect. Even to get my family group on Signal, I'd have to get twenty people to install Signal, probably visit some of them to help them with the setup, do it again every time they switch phones, and so on. And they'd probably still default to WhatsApp because that's what they know.
    - tcfhgj 11mo ago
      this means WhatsApp is the easy choice, but nobody forces you ... yet
- rwmj 11mo ago
  I can report that Matrix/Element is still absolutely terrible, and not just the search.
  - tcfhgj 11mo ago
    not perfect? yes terrible? no way
    - rwmj 11mo ago
      Every time I use it, it has some huge box over a third of the page saying I must "verify sessions". It's incredibly slow to propagate messages. Initial set up is very confusing and offers far too many choices. I've never worked out how to find rooms. Regularly someone will give me a room name and I can't find it or join it. Their entire service went down (did someone say "decentralised"?) a few months ago.
      - tcfhgj 11mo ago
        > Every time I use it, it has some huge box over a third of the page saying I must "verify sessions". do you use element web on the phone? > It's incredibly slow to propagate messages. was > Initial set up is very confusing and offers far too many choices. thing of the past, currently there are two choices, in the future there will be only one > I've never worked out how to find rooms. Regularly someone will give me a room name and I can't find it or join it. let someone invite you to the room or share a link > Their entire service went down (did someone say "decentralised"?) a few months ago. afaik only matrix.org went down
        Arathorn 11mo ago
        > afaik only matrix.org went down correct; the rest of the network was unaffected - it was just one instance (albeit the biggest one). https://matrix.org/blog/2025/10/post-mortem https://matrix.org/blog/2025/10/post-mortem.
  - herbst 11mo ago
blitzar 11mo ago
You also end up handling 10x more faeces and vomit than you have seen in your existence to date ... while whatsapp is more gross, you handle it the same way you handle diarrhea - you hold your nose and deal with it.

... You'll end up being forced into WhatsApp groups? Sounds dangerous

by herbst 11mo ago

... You'll end up being forced into WhatsApp groups? Sounds dangerous

Yeah, why not something else? There are a lot of better alternatives. Matrix (Element) although does the search functionality work yet? It sucked ass. I wonder if it works now. Even Telegram is better, then there is Signal, Briar, and XMPP, too. They are fully featured ones. If you are fine with text only, then Ricochet Refresh is the best candidate as far as privacy goes.

herbst 11mo ago
Most parents I know dont even allow their children WhatsApp (as you said there are safer alternatives like Signal without weird social network functions you can barely control) so why would parents use it? For me this just sounds nonsensical. I am sure it makes sense somewhere in the world
- johnisgood 11mo ago
  I mean yeah, I'm sure it depends and varies a lot. I would feel more comfortable if they used something more privacy-oriented, and I do the same. The rest, of course, is up to me. I do not think I would be able to get my kid off the grid completely so might as well use a better alternative, and in many cases you simply just can't because you have to submit your homework through Facebook, and so forth. Thankfully it has settled down a bit post-COVID but there may still be cases of this crap. I loathe it. In any case, a privacy-oriented alternative is better than the cancerous Meta. If you want no IMs at all, well, that may be tough. Kids find a way, trust me. I know I did. :D
- InsideOutSanta 11mo ago
  Where I live, WhatsApp is the standard. 100% of people have it installed, minus some hermits who have never heard of the Internet. My parents know how to use WhatsApp and have it installed. My sister and her family, too. My friends, their friends, the scammer trying to explain to me how to access the crypto I apparently lost track of on their platform, my former coworkers, my current coworkers, the people I interact with for my freelance work, the government's road safety alerts, my ex-girlfriend who still has a bunch of my clothes, my neighborhthey areood group informing me when I need to put out the trash-they're all on WhatsApp. It's the network effect. Even to get my family group on Signal, I'd have to get twenty people to install Signal, probably visit some of them to help them with the setup, do it again every time they switch phones, and so on. And they'd probably still default to WhatsApp because that's what they know.
  - tcfhgj 11mo ago
    this means WhatsApp is the easy choice, but nobody forces you ... yet
rwmj 11mo ago
I can report that Matrix/Element is still absolutely terrible, and not just the search.
- tcfhgj 11mo ago
  not perfect? yes terrible? no way
  - rwmj 11mo ago
    Every time I use it, it has some huge box over a third of the page saying I must "verify sessions". It's incredibly slow to propagate messages. Initial set up is very confusing and offers far too many choices. I've never worked out how to find rooms. Regularly someone will give me a room name and I can't find it or join it. Their entire service went down (did someone say "decentralised"?) a few months ago.
    - tcfhgj 11mo ago
      > Every time I use it, it has some huge box over a third of the page saying I must "verify sessions". do you use element web on the phone? > It's incredibly slow to propagate messages. was > Initial set up is very confusing and offers far too many choices. thing of the past, currently there are two choices, in the future there will be only one > I've never worked out how to find rooms. Regularly someone will give me a room name and I can't find it or join it. let someone invite you to the room or share a link > Their entire service went down (did someone say "decentralised"?) a few months ago. afaik only matrix.org went down
      - Arathorn 11mo ago
        > afaik only matrix.org went down correct; the rest of the network was unaffected - it was just one instance (albeit the biggest one). https://matrix.org/blog/2025/10/post-mortem https://matrix.org/blog/2025/10/post-mortem.
- herbst 11mo ago

blitzar 11mo ago

You also end up handling 10x more faeces and vomit than you have seen in your existence to date ... while whatsapp is more gross, you handle it the same way you handle diarrhea - you hold your nose and deal with it.