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I am an Indian (from Goa). Your idea that the millions of Software Engineers from India are going bridge the gap is misguided, IMO. What Software innovation ha

I am an Indian (from Goa). Your idea that the millions of Software Engineers from India are going bridge the gap is misguided, IMO. What Software innovation has India done? Do you know of any compiler companies from here? Or any Operating System companies? How many linux kernel engineers does Infosys or TCS have? Both companies are sitting with billions in cash. Do you think any senior directors there are thinking - let's create a microchip, even if it's way behind Intel or AMD? I remember reading an interview of Bjarne Stroustrup - he said AT&T gave away their compilers to their competitors (like HP) knowing fully well it would strengthen them. Is any company in India on the same level as AT&T, who can see the bigger picture ? Maybe Tata's come close (not TCS). Indian senior management are like glorified buniyas - who when they put down 50 paise, expect Rs 1.5 back. It took Standard Chartered to come to India and sponsor a marathon. That should tell you a lot about senior management here. On a larger scale is any Indian company thinking we can build a commercial aircraft? Only HAL builds fighters - but that's a govt company. Soon Microsoft is going to create an opportunity for everyone to erode their Desktop OS share by walling off developers? Do you think TCS or Infosys is building a Linux Distro like Canonical/Ubuntu? Do you think they have the balls to get into that market and try and take market share? The fundamental thinking of India seems to be flawed. Everyone wants a piece of the outsourcing pie. Synergies and bullcrap like that. No products come from here. I believe we are already suffering a much worse fate than Japan. Videocon is a collaboration with a Japanese company (since the talk was about electronic majors from Japan). Where are the real indigenous products from India, so that we can have the same fate as Japan? The only advantage the 1 million "good" engineers you claim is cost. Once the cost advantage goes, people are going to be jobless, not bridging any gaps. I went to 2 leading BPOs with my compilers for Survey Programming and Cross Tabulation. The VPs said the thought of writing such products never crossed their minds. They were not interested. If you want to see the difference in Indian thinking - compare with Germany. Open source is available to everyone and that means countries too. I have read many articles about Germany using Open source in govt offices and there was an article about France and Libre Office. India cannot go down the same road as Japan, because we dont have the products in the first place to go down that road. I don't know if your "bridging the gap", means supplying engineers to other countries. If yes, then this is the typical thinking that creates the net negative cash flow in economies like ours.

anuraj 14y ago
Software innovation and engineering go hand in hand, but not necessarily the same thing. Innovation will and have to come from innovators, some of whom would be engineers; but execution requires engineers. No India is not on the innovation train yet, but that is not an impediment for creation and supply of engineers. You seem to be trying to argue about certain lack of innovation in India and whether engineer migration is good for India. Those are separate subjects altogether.
zem 14y ago
fellow goan here, and i have to say that while you are mostly correct, things are beginning to shift. there are a sprinkling of homegrown "product" companies popping up in bangalore and pune, and a small but increasing participation in various open source communities. hopefully by the next decade indian software engineers will be motivated by seeing what they can build, rather than by where they can make a quick buck solving someone's outsourced problems.
- neilxdsouza 14y ago
  I will believe this, when I see products which are not your typical social products coming from here, not your next twitter app clone variants, after people have done their first walk through using Rails. What would be challenging products showing some tech know-how (note there is hardly an innovation in any of this, but demonstrates some level of tech competence)? 1. Take the g++ source code or clang, intercept it at the point it creates the parse tree and create a code navigation(cscope for c++) or lint like tool. 2. Chapter 6, PAIP has the bare bones of a flight search engine in lisp. You need to add more parameters and a different metric function. Open source the solution to disrupt current monopolies. 3. Google is solving the language translation problem. 4. Disrupt the big 5 in audits (PwC etc). Create an accounting /audit package that uses similar ideas as git. Use SHA1 entries to track accounting entries. PwC, screwed up Satyam's auditing and got away with it (because of bribing?). In the US, Arthur Anderson was destroyed as an entity for fudging Enron. Since we are used to bribing the govt to pass laws, TCS or Infosys could throw weight on the govt to pass a law to accept streams of accounting records using "git push". Audit data is now a weekly or monthly disclosure, using git push to a govt location. Much lesser chance for companies to fudge data once you have a much tighter cycle, tamper proof because of SHA1 checksums.

anuraj 14y ago

Software innovation and engineering go hand in hand, but not necessarily the same thing. Innovation will and have to come from innovators, some of whom would be engineers; but execution requires engineers. No India is not on the innovation train yet, but that is not an impediment for creation and supply of engineers. You seem to be trying to argue about certain lack of innovation in India and whether engineer migration is good for India. Those are separate subjects altogether.

zem 14y ago

fellow goan here, and i have to say that while you are mostly correct, things are beginning to shift. there are a sprinkling of homegrown "product" companies popping up in bangalore and pune, and a small but increasing participation in various open source communities. hopefully by the next decade indian software engineers will be motivated by seeing what they can build, rather than by where they can make a quick buck solving someone's outsourced problems.

neilxdsouza 14y ago
I will believe this, when I see products which are not your typical social products coming from here, not your next twitter app clone variants, after people have done their first walk through using Rails. What would be challenging products showing some tech know-how (note there is hardly an innovation in any of this, but demonstrates some level of tech competence)? 1. Take the g++ source code or clang, intercept it at the point it creates the parse tree and create a code navigation(cscope for c++) or lint like tool. 2. Chapter 6, PAIP has the bare bones of a flight search engine in lisp. You need to add more parameters and a different metric function. Open source the solution to disrupt current monopolies. 3. Google is solving the language translation problem. 4. Disrupt the big 5 in audits (PwC etc). Create an accounting /audit package that uses similar ideas as git. Use SHA1 entries to track accounting entries. PwC, screwed up Satyam's auditing and got away with it (because of bribing?). In the US, Arthur Anderson was destroyed as an entity for fudging Enron. Since we are used to bribing the govt to pass laws, TCS or Infosys could throw weight on the govt to pass a law to accept streams of accounting records using "git push". Audit data is now a weekly or monthly disclosure, using git push to a govt location. Much lesser chance for companies to fudge data once you have a much tighter cycle, tamper proof because of SHA1 checksums.