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In this big hardware refresh, honestly most excited about finally getting a new steam controller [1], which feels like it might finally give us a better, more e

In this big hardware refresh, honestly most excited about finally getting a new steam controller [1], which feels like it might finally give us a better, more extensible standard than the extremely outdated XInput protocol (which still doesn't even support motion controls) [1] https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steamcontroller https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steamcontroller

torginus 11mo ago
Isn't the lack of extensibility kind of the point? It forces everyone to make the same controller, so the developer knows what the user will have.
LelouBil 11mo ago
I'm just hoping it has a standalone "pretend it is an xbox/generic controller" mode that doesn't rely on steam, so I can bring it to friends easily.
- p_l 11mo ago
  All you need is good HID driver in OS... unless the application hardcodes expectations about XBox controller
  - LelouBil 11mo ago
    Yeah I said xbox beacause whatever, but I'm just worried that Valve, while they are usually consumer-friendly never added a standalone gamepad mode to the controller directly and it is always reliant on Steam (and so you need to do tricks like using GlosSI[0] to use it outside). And at the same time, if you just plug in your controller while holding the right trigger, it acts as a usb drive where you can just replace (and grab it's original) firmware, so there have been some efforts. I at least want that from the new one, at the very least. [0] https://github.com/Alia5/GlosSI https://github.com/Alia5/GlosSI
    - p_l 11mo ago
      My understanding is that GlosSI isn't actually required for using Steam Controller, but what it does is add SteamInput, aka the whole complex rebinding layer that also handles things like custom multi-level menus etc. to games that expect X360 controller and do not cooperate with steam. I might be wrong, but it sounds like it's handling a different area
hnuser123456 11mo ago
No mention of dual stage trigger though, which was my cheat code in rocket league to have one button for accelerate and boost
- nisegami 11mo ago
  Hoping it's there just not mentioned.
  - opan 11mo ago
    This controller seems more like it's going for parity with the Deck, which doesn't have dual stage triggers. I wouldn't get your hopes up.
- WXLCKNO 11mo ago
  Wow lol. I just posted the exact same comment, there are dozens of us! I literally cannot play rocket league without the steam controller for this reason. Also set rotate left and right to the grip triggers (roll in aviation terms I guess).
- pythonaut_16 11mo ago
  Steamdeck has the dual stage triggers right? (Though maybe just in software?) I'd be shocked if the new controller is less capable than that.
- jorvi 11mo ago
  You can set a dual-stage trigger in Steam Input binding with any controller its trigger range, its not something unique to the Steam Controller.
  - hnuser123456 11mo ago
    Sure, but having a tactile bump in the travel makes it that much easier. I can see the argument that it might seem overcomplicated or confusing to typical users though.
12_throw_away 11mo ago
In my dream world, hardware enthusiasts would be constantly creating absolutely crazy game controllers with bizarre combinations of inputs that look nothing like an xbox 360 controller. There'd be a universal input protocol that would allow for self-describing gamepads with arbitrary numbers of digital buttons, analog sticks and triggers, touchpads, mouse inputs, haptics, gyro sensors, levers, sliders, wheels, etc. etc. I realize this may not be practical, but it's kind of weird that PCs have been more or less stuck with a protocol designed for XBox 360 controllers for 2 decades now, while the locked-down console space is seeing much more experimentation and innovation around input. The original steam controller at least hinted at being sort of an open platform for this sort of thing, although it didn't really take off. Fingers crossed for the new version.
- rtkwe 11mo ago
  It's because the two-thumbstick, 8 face buttons, 2 shoulder and 2 trigger form factor covers so many games there's not been a real reason for super wacky controllers. They kind of hit it out of the park on the 360 design and the only real sticking point left is the exact ergonomics which mostly fall into the PS thumbstick position (both lower) vs XBox position (left high and right low).
  - likeclockwork 11mo ago
    The Xbox controller doesn't even have a gyro. Xbox controller design is completely stagnant.
    - jorvi 11mo ago
      Gyro aiming being on all 3 console platforms would be such a huge boon, because then it could finally get implemented in every shooter. And they could start heavily nerfing the frankly ridiculous aim assist that controllers currently get. Back buttons would be another nice one. Right now there's just 2-4 buttons too few on controllers, and it often leads to strange button mappings that either shift with context or require multi-button activations, which gets even more annoying if you have to do it during, say, a jump.
ThatPlayer 11mo ago
SInput recently released and got supported by SDL, which plenty of games, but also Steam Input uses. So you can already use SInput in Steam Input. Better than XInput for sure. https://docs.handheldlegend.com/s/sinput/doc/sinput-hid-protocol-dev-SNSaEw36nc https://docs.handheldlegend.com/s/sinput/doc/sinput-hid-prot... I don't think Steam has ever published specs for their protocol. And without Steam, their old controller would fallback to a mouse/keyboard mode. The Linux kernel drivers (that didn't require Steam) were reverse engineered. Hori released a Steam Controller recently. Even that still had an XInput fallback switch.
WXLCKNO 11mo ago
I love my OG steam controller still. I can't tell if this new one has the dual stage triggers like the og (like if there's an additional click on full trigger pull). I used that to set things like boost in rocket League and it felt super intuitive.
- esskay 11mo ago
  According to digital foundry it does have dual stage triggers
  - jdiff 11mo ago
    Praise Gaben. That's the one thing I've needed in any replacement Steam Controller and Valve finally did it before the last of my OG Controllers gave up the ghost.
    - bargainbin 11mo ago
      I think the person you’re replying to has made a mistake: I looked extensively last night and there’s no mention of the Steam Controller having dual stage triggers. However, the Steam Frame Controllers do. Seems weird they would add them on the Frame wands but not the actual controller replacing the controller that does have them.
- bargainbin 11mo ago
  First thing I checked for! I feel like it's such a niche feature but also distinctive. It's actually a "necessity" for a proper Gamecube emulation experience, which has the two stage shoulder buttons. Like you, I also used this for boost on Rocket League and it was surprisingly intuitive. You can map it to the triggers lowest threshold to emulate it but without the tactile bump to rest against it just won't work.
WhereIsTheTruth 11mo ago
The trackpads are a deal breaker for me They should have put them just above the joysticks, like the PS5 controller Better, they should have made them detachable with a magnet, similar to the Switch JoyCon's system, what a missed opportunity
- Yokolos 11mo ago
  > They should have put them just above the joysticks, like the PS5 controller I don't understand how that would be in any way ergonomic. The new Steam Controller's layout has a proven track record with the Steam Deck, which is essentially identical. It allows you to play KB&M games like Alpha Centauri on the Steam Deck without any external peripherals. It would be utterly unplayable if the trackpads were in the same place as the PS5's pad, which is basically just used to open a menu or map or for gimmicky in-game gestures.
- fwip 11mo ago
  I found the original Steam Controller's trackpad placement to be just about perfect.
jorvi 11mo ago
It looks way too chunky, just like the original Steam Controller, Steam Deck or original duke Xbox controller. Not everybody has Jack Reacher hands. Microsoft really did it right with the XSX controller. They took the old X360 / Xone design (perfect for large and medium hands) shrunk it slightly and then added cut-outs and and angled button surfaces (perfect for medium and small hands). The Elite is similarly good, with the back buttons being elongated and thin, meaning everyone can reach them comfortably without them getting in the way.
- lawn 11mo ago
  My kids have been using the steam deck since they were 3 years old. Granted, their hands were a bit too small but the Deck is way more manageable than it appears.
- hurricanepootis 11mo ago
  I own a steam controller and have been using it for multiple years. It's actually really comfortable with the way it sits in my hand. Far more comfortable than whatever sony had going on with the PS4 dualsense stuff
- archon810 11mo ago
  Maybe in size, but at least by weight, it's not bad at all. Steam Controller weight: 292g. Nintendo Switch 2 controller: 235g. Sony Playstation 5 DualSense controller: 280g. DualSense Edge: 322g. Xbox Wireless controller: 280g. Wireless Elite series 2: 345g.
- terribleperson 11mo ago
  You do not need big hands to use a classic steam controller, you just need to shift your grip. It's actually hard to use a steam controller with big hands. With long thumbs, the proper grip doesn't land your thumbs in the middle of the track pads. Failing to better communicate the proper grip for the steam controller was a real fuck up on valve's part though. They should have tried to communicate it through design, making it harder to hold wrong. I am kind of concerned about the size of the new controller, but valve seems to have decided there's no place in the market for a controller without sticks.
pixelready 11mo ago
Same here. The trackpads on the steam deck work great. Might get this for docked mode. Kinda wish a splittable controller was more common for ergonomics ( not great to be clenching your chest on a centered object like that for hours on end, similar to non-split keyboards ). Seems like split controllers are still reserved for VR and nintendo switch style systems for now…
- gps0 11mo ago
  Can't you just use joycons without a Switch or VR controllers without a headset on PC?
archon810 11mo ago
I've been using a Stadia controller with my Steam Deck OLED but finally it'll have a worthy upgrade.
the__alchemist 11mo ago
I wonder how this will compare to the Dual Sense; the haptics on that would be tough to give up!
mcnnowak 11mo ago
I'm really disappointed that the new controller takes AA batteries though.
- alliao 11mo ago
  i love it... I have a whole set of fujitsu/eneloop NiMH batteries
- ndsipa_pomu 11mo ago
  Maybe more electronics should do this to avoid so much electronic waste as when the built in battery dies, it becomes junk.
- pipe01 11mo ago
  The steam controller has a rechargable battery, maybe you're thinking of the steam frame controllers?
HexPhantom 11mo ago
If Valve can push a new standard that actually takes modern input seriously and gives devs better tooling, I'd be all for it
weberer 11mo ago
I just hope they give us an option to buy a controller with the face buttons in the "Nintendo" order rather than the "Xbox" order. Like how the 8bitdo pro comes in two versions. The only console I actually still care about these days is the Switch/Switch 2, so it would be nice to not have the button placement suddenly reversed when switching between controllers. https://www.8bitdo.com/pro2/ https://www.8bitdo.com/pro2/
- dabluecaboose 11mo ago
  This doesn't help with the actual button printing, but you can set any controller to use Nintendo layout in Steam input

torginus 11mo ago

Isn't the lack of extensibility kind of the point? It forces everyone to make the same controller, so the developer knows what the user will have.

LelouBil 11mo ago

I'm just hoping it has a standalone "pretend it is an xbox/generic controller" mode that doesn't rely on steam, so I can bring it to friends easily.

p_l 11mo ago
All you need is good HID driver in OS... unless the application hardcodes expectations about XBox controller
- LelouBil 11mo ago
  Yeah I said xbox beacause whatever, but I'm just worried that Valve, while they are usually consumer-friendly never added a standalone gamepad mode to the controller directly and it is always reliant on Steam (and so you need to do tricks like using GlosSI[0] to use it outside). And at the same time, if you just plug in your controller while holding the right trigger, it acts as a usb drive where you can just replace (and grab it's original) firmware, so there have been some efforts. I at least want that from the new one, at the very least. [0] https://github.com/Alia5/GlosSI https://github.com/Alia5/GlosSI
  - p_l 11mo ago
    My understanding is that GlosSI isn't actually required for using Steam Controller, but what it does is add SteamInput, aka the whole complex rebinding layer that also handles things like custom multi-level menus etc. to games that expect X360 controller and do not cooperate with steam. I might be wrong, but it sounds like it's handling a different area

hnuser123456 11mo ago

No mention of dual stage trigger though, which was my cheat code in rocket league to have one button for accelerate and boost

nisegami 11mo ago
Hoping it's there just not mentioned.
- opan 11mo ago
  This controller seems more like it's going for parity with the Deck, which doesn't have dual stage triggers. I wouldn't get your hopes up.
WXLCKNO 11mo ago
Wow lol. I just posted the exact same comment, there are dozens of us! I literally cannot play rocket league without the steam controller for this reason. Also set rotate left and right to the grip triggers (roll in aviation terms I guess).
pythonaut_16 11mo ago
Steamdeck has the dual stage triggers right? (Though maybe just in software?) I'd be shocked if the new controller is less capable than that.
jorvi 11mo ago
You can set a dual-stage trigger in Steam Input binding with any controller its trigger range, its not something unique to the Steam Controller.
- hnuser123456 11mo ago
  Sure, but having a tactile bump in the travel makes it that much easier. I can see the argument that it might seem overcomplicated or confusing to typical users though.

12_throw_away 11mo ago

In my dream world, hardware enthusiasts would be constantly creating absolutely crazy game controllers with bizarre combinations of inputs that look nothing like an xbox 360 controller. There'd be a universal input protocol that would allow for self-describing gamepads with arbitrary numbers of digital buttons, analog sticks and triggers, touchpads, mouse inputs, haptics, gyro sensors, levers, sliders, wheels, etc. etc. I realize this may not be practical, but it's kind of weird that PCs have been more or less stuck with a protocol designed for XBox 360 controllers for 2 decades now, while the locked-down console space is seeing much more experimentation and innovation around input. The original steam controller at least hinted at being sort of an open platform for this sort of thing, although it didn't really take off. Fingers crossed for the new version.

rtkwe 11mo ago
It's because the two-thumbstick, 8 face buttons, 2 shoulder and 2 trigger form factor covers so many games there's not been a real reason for super wacky controllers. They kind of hit it out of the park on the 360 design and the only real sticking point left is the exact ergonomics which mostly fall into the PS thumbstick position (both lower) vs XBox position (left high and right low).
- likeclockwork 11mo ago
  The Xbox controller doesn't even have a gyro. Xbox controller design is completely stagnant.
  - jorvi 11mo ago
    Gyro aiming being on all 3 console platforms would be such a huge boon, because then it could finally get implemented in every shooter. And they could start heavily nerfing the frankly ridiculous aim assist that controllers currently get. Back buttons would be another nice one. Right now there's just 2-4 buttons too few on controllers, and it often leads to strange button mappings that either shift with context or require multi-button activations, which gets even more annoying if you have to do it during, say, a jump.

ThatPlayer 11mo ago

SInput recently released and got supported by SDL, which plenty of games, but also Steam Input uses. So you can already use SInput in Steam Input. Better than XInput for sure. https://docs.handheldlegend.com/s/sinput/doc/sinput-hid-protocol-dev-SNSaEw36nc https://docs.handheldlegend.com/s/sinput/doc/sinput-hid-prot... I don't think Steam has ever published specs for their protocol. And without Steam, their old controller would fallback to a mouse/keyboard mode. The Linux kernel drivers (that didn't require Steam) were reverse engineered. Hori released a Steam Controller recently. Even that still had an XInput fallback switch.

WXLCKNO 11mo ago

I love my OG steam controller still. I can't tell if this new one has the dual stage triggers like the og (like if there's an additional click on full trigger pull). I used that to set things like boost in rocket League and it felt super intuitive.

esskay 11mo ago
According to digital foundry it does have dual stage triggers
- jdiff 11mo ago
  Praise Gaben. That's the one thing I've needed in any replacement Steam Controller and Valve finally did it before the last of my OG Controllers gave up the ghost.
  - bargainbin 11mo ago
    I think the person you’re replying to has made a mistake: I looked extensively last night and there’s no mention of the Steam Controller having dual stage triggers. However, the Steam Frame Controllers do. Seems weird they would add them on the Frame wands but not the actual controller replacing the controller that does have them.
bargainbin 11mo ago
First thing I checked for! I feel like it's such a niche feature but also distinctive. It's actually a "necessity" for a proper Gamecube emulation experience, which has the two stage shoulder buttons. Like you, I also used this for boost on Rocket League and it was surprisingly intuitive. You can map it to the triggers lowest threshold to emulate it but without the tactile bump to rest against it just won't work.

WhereIsTheTruth 11mo ago

The trackpads are a deal breaker for me They should have put them just above the joysticks, like the PS5 controller Better, they should have made them detachable with a magnet, similar to the Switch JoyCon's system, what a missed opportunity

Yokolos 11mo ago
> They should have put them just above the joysticks, like the PS5 controller I don't understand how that would be in any way ergonomic. The new Steam Controller's layout has a proven track record with the Steam Deck, which is essentially identical. It allows you to play KB&M games like Alpha Centauri on the Steam Deck without any external peripherals. It would be utterly unplayable if the trackpads were in the same place as the PS5's pad, which is basically just used to open a menu or map or for gimmicky in-game gestures.
fwip 11mo ago
I found the original Steam Controller's trackpad placement to be just about perfect.

jorvi 11mo ago

It looks way too chunky, just like the original Steam Controller, Steam Deck or original duke Xbox controller. Not everybody has Jack Reacher hands. Microsoft really did it right with the XSX controller. They took the old X360 / Xone design (perfect for large and medium hands) shrunk it slightly and then added cut-outs and and angled button surfaces (perfect for medium and small hands). The Elite is similarly good, with the back buttons being elongated and thin, meaning everyone can reach them comfortably without them getting in the way.

lawn 11mo ago
My kids have been using the steam deck since they were 3 years old. Granted, their hands were a bit too small but the Deck is way more manageable than it appears.
hurricanepootis 11mo ago
I own a steam controller and have been using it for multiple years. It's actually really comfortable with the way it sits in my hand. Far more comfortable than whatever sony had going on with the PS4 dualsense stuff
archon810 11mo ago
Maybe in size, but at least by weight, it's not bad at all. Steam Controller weight: 292g. Nintendo Switch 2 controller: 235g. Sony Playstation 5 DualSense controller: 280g. DualSense Edge: 322g. Xbox Wireless controller: 280g. Wireless Elite series 2: 345g.
terribleperson 11mo ago
You do not need big hands to use a classic steam controller, you just need to shift your grip. It's actually hard to use a steam controller with big hands. With long thumbs, the proper grip doesn't land your thumbs in the middle of the track pads. Failing to better communicate the proper grip for the steam controller was a real fuck up on valve's part though. They should have tried to communicate it through design, making it harder to hold wrong. I am kind of concerned about the size of the new controller, but valve seems to have decided there's no place in the market for a controller without sticks.

pixelready 11mo ago

Same here. The trackpads on the steam deck work great. Might get this for docked mode. Kinda wish a splittable controller was more common for ergonomics ( not great to be clenching your chest on a centered object like that for hours on end, similar to non-split keyboards ). Seems like split controllers are still reserved for VR and nintendo switch style systems for now…

gps0 11mo ago
Can't you just use joycons without a Switch or VR controllers without a headset on PC?

archon810 11mo ago

I've been using a Stadia controller with my Steam Deck OLED but finally it'll have a worthy upgrade.

the__alchemist 11mo ago

I wonder how this will compare to the Dual Sense; the haptics on that would be tough to give up!

mcnnowak 11mo ago

I'm really disappointed that the new controller takes AA batteries though.

alliao 11mo ago
i love it... I have a whole set of fujitsu/eneloop NiMH batteries
ndsipa_pomu 11mo ago
Maybe more electronics should do this to avoid so much electronic waste as when the built in battery dies, it becomes junk.
pipe01 11mo ago
The steam controller has a rechargable battery, maybe you're thinking of the steam frame controllers?

HexPhantom 11mo ago

If Valve can push a new standard that actually takes modern input seriously and gives devs better tooling, I'd be all for it

weberer 11mo ago

I just hope they give us an option to buy a controller with the face buttons in the "Nintendo" order rather than the "Xbox" order. Like how the 8bitdo pro comes in two versions. The only console I actually still care about these days is the Switch/Switch 2, so it would be nice to not have the button placement suddenly reversed when switching between controllers. https://www.8bitdo.com/pro2/ https://www.8bitdo.com/pro2/

dabluecaboose 11mo ago
This doesn't help with the actual button printing, but you can set any controller to use Nintendo layout in Steam input