4 ms·

> Waymo was a better experience in every single way. One of the Lyfts i was in drove on the shoulder for a while like it was a lane. These sentances conflict.

by toast0 1y ago

> Waymo was a better experience in every single way. One of the Lyfts i was in drove on the shoulder for a while like it was a lane. These sentances conflict. I recently took a taxi from JFK to Manhattan during rush hour, and I estimate if the driver didn't use all of the paved surface, it would have taken at least 10 more minutes to arrive. (And it wouldn't have been an authentic NYC experience) It's ok if you prefer the Waymo experience, and if you find it a better experience overall, but if a human driver saves you time, the Waymo wasn't better in every single way. I am assuming the Lyft driver used the shoulder effectively. My experience with Lyft+Uber has been hit or miss... Some drivers are like traditional taxi drivers: it's an exciting ride because the driver knows the capabilities of their vehicle and uses them and they navigate obstacles within inches; some drivers are the opposite, it's an exciting ride because it feels like Star Tours (is this your first time? well, it's mine too) and they're using your ride to find the capabilities of their vehicle. The first type of driver is likely to use the shoulder effectively, and the second not so much.

QuercusMax 1y ago
You want your cab driver to drive on the shoulder and break the law? What?
- CPLX 1y ago
  You may want to become aware of the existence of New York City. It's a pretty interesting place.
  - QuercusMax 1y ago
    Yeah, that sounds like NYC nonsense. I assume it's still illegal to drive on the shoulder in New York.
    - CPLX 1y ago
      Perhaps. But if you have a taxi or car service driver who's not willing to ever break any traffic laws in New York, you will not arrive at your destination in anything approaching a reasonable amount of time. For example, getting at the back of the line for an exit rather than trying to go to the front and cut your way in could be a multi-hour mistake.
      - triceratops 1y ago
        I hope robocars get really good at maintaining close formation and keeping out asshole linecutters.
      - renewiltord 1y ago
        Haha, this is both entirely true and entirely the reason why NYC is pretty much stuck where it is. If cities were parables, NYC would be The Parable of the Tragedy of the Commons. Globally, among cities I've been to it would have to be Delhi, but NYC is certainly in that category of South Asian cities where the infrastructure is far outpaced by the population and the population is like a swarming rat king constantly jockeying for a few inches more. It's a viral race to the bottom.
        QuercusMax 1y ago
        This just sounds like an argument to ban cars for private use and invest more in transit.
        renewiltord 1y ago
        Certainly it sounds like that. However whatever cultural transformation turns Man into Rat King has already occurred so you'll notice that it costs over a billion dollars per mile of subway in NYC. Everyone who hasn't figured out how to leech off the government is a fattened milk cow whose production is harvested industrially. New Yorkers are already incapable of non-extractive development. Like the GP they have been transformed into zero-sum zombies by their city. A cautionary tale of culture.
      - crazygringo 1y ago
        This is absurd, and it's a**hole behavior you're defending. You don't need to break any laws to get to where you're going, what are you even talking about? And you think that just because you're in a taxi you should get to magically cut to the front of a line of cars, made of the vast majority of New Yorkers who actually respect each other? What could possibly make you feel so entitled? And if you think waiting in line for an exit takes multiple hours, I question whether you've ever been to NYC in the first place.
estearum 1y ago
> These sentances conflict. I recently took a taxi from JFK to Manhattan during rush hour, and I estimate if the driver didn't use all of the paved surface, it would have taken at least 10 more minutes to arrive. (And it wouldn't have been an authentic NYC experience) My hot take is that people who "use all of the paved surface" because their whiny passenger is "in a rush" (which of course everyone stuck in traffic is) should permanently lose their license on the very first offense. It is just gobsmackingly antisocial behavior that is 1) locally unsafe and 2) indicative of a deep moral rot. Obviously exceptions can be made for true emergencies and what not, but "I need to save 10 minutes" is not one of them.
- jeffbee 1y ago
  My hot take is that anyone who would take a taxi from JFK to Manhattan, along the most well-served transit corridor on the continent, is probably a psycho and we shouldn't ask for their input on transportation topics.
  - estearum 1y ago
    JFK to Manhattan is actually not that easy for a newcomer. JFK → Airtrain → LIRR → Subway is a very stupid design. That said, yes GP is obviously a psycho.
  - CPLX 1y ago
    Oh my sweet summer child. I've got news for you about how dysfunctional New York City transit planning has been and the status of transit to our three giant airports.
  - crazygringo 1y ago
    You do realize that public transportation doesn't provide luggage carts? That you can't take those out of the airport? If you're traveling with a family or group, it really is often going to be much easier to take an XL Uber than deal with turnstiles and transfers and stairs and everything.
    - 1y ago
asadm 1y ago
couldn't you have arrived 10 minutes later or was endangering life worth it?
- toast0 1y ago
  I certainly could have arrived 10 minutes later, but I wouldn't say that arriving 10 minutes later would result in a better experience in every way. It might result in a hypothetically safer experience (in the instance, there were no collisions so safety was achieved) or a morally better experience (according to the HN consensus morals that deem me a psychopath for either taking a cab at all or because I did not intervene and let the cab driver drive as he saw fit). Up to you what criteria you judge the overall trip on, I'm just pointing out that if the trip time is longer, the trip is not better in every way; at least absent an unusual requirement such as if you wanted to see the sights on the way, a shorter but less scenic trip would be a negative; or if you had a timing constraint that you must not arrive before a certain time, a shorter trip might infringe that constraint and would be a negative --- no such constraint was mentioned. I don't know that any life was endangered either. I would accept an argument that property was endangered, certainly the margin between vehicles was very close, but at speeds where a collision would not have been injurious.
lo_zamoyski 1y ago
Uh...driving in the shoulder is illegal.
JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> it would have taken at least 10 more minutes to arrive. (And it wouldn't have been an authentic NYC experience) Lived in New York for 10+ years and still go back regularly. This is unacceptable behaviour by a cabbie. Given the amount of construction and thus police presence on that route right now, you’re lucky you didn’t get a 60-minute bonus when the cab got pulled over. (The pro move during rush hour and construction is (a) not to, but if you have to, (b) taking the AirTrain and LIRR.)

by toast0 1y ago

QuercusMax 1y ago

You want your cab driver to drive on the shoulder and break the law? What?

CPLX 1y ago
You may want to become aware of the existence of New York City. It's a pretty interesting place.
- QuercusMax 1y ago
  Yeah, that sounds like NYC nonsense. I assume it's still illegal to drive on the shoulder in New York.
  - CPLX 1y ago
    Perhaps. But if you have a taxi or car service driver who's not willing to ever break any traffic laws in New York, you will not arrive at your destination in anything approaching a reasonable amount of time. For example, getting at the back of the line for an exit rather than trying to go to the front and cut your way in could be a multi-hour mistake.
    - triceratops 1y ago
      I hope robocars get really good at maintaining close formation and keeping out asshole linecutters.
    - renewiltord 1y ago
      Haha, this is both entirely true and entirely the reason why NYC is pretty much stuck where it is. If cities were parables, NYC would be The Parable of the Tragedy of the Commons. Globally, among cities I've been to it would have to be Delhi, but NYC is certainly in that category of South Asian cities where the infrastructure is far outpaced by the population and the population is like a swarming rat king constantly jockeying for a few inches more. It's a viral race to the bottom.
      - QuercusMax 1y ago
        This just sounds like an argument to ban cars for private use and invest more in transit.
        renewiltord 1y ago
        Certainly it sounds like that. However whatever cultural transformation turns Man into Rat King has already occurred so you'll notice that it costs over a billion dollars per mile of subway in NYC. Everyone who hasn't figured out how to leech off the government is a fattened milk cow whose production is harvested industrially. New Yorkers are already incapable of non-extractive development. Like the GP they have been transformed into zero-sum zombies by their city. A cautionary tale of culture.
    - crazygringo 1y ago
      This is absurd, and it's a**hole behavior you're defending. You don't need to break any laws to get to where you're going, what are you even talking about? And you think that just because you're in a taxi you should get to magically cut to the front of a line of cars, made of the vast majority of New Yorkers who actually respect each other? What could possibly make you feel so entitled? And if you think waiting in line for an exit takes multiple hours, I question whether you've ever been to NYC in the first place.

estearum 1y ago

> These sentances conflict. I recently took a taxi from JFK to Manhattan during rush hour, and I estimate if the driver didn't use all of the paved surface, it would have taken at least 10 more minutes to arrive. (And it wouldn't have been an authentic NYC experience) My hot take is that people who "use all of the paved surface" because their whiny passenger is "in a rush" (which of course everyone stuck in traffic is) should permanently lose their license on the very first offense. It is just gobsmackingly antisocial behavior that is 1) locally unsafe and 2) indicative of a deep moral rot. Obviously exceptions can be made for true emergencies and what not, but "I need to save 10 minutes" is not one of them.

jeffbee 1y ago
My hot take is that anyone who would take a taxi from JFK to Manhattan, along the most well-served transit corridor on the continent, is probably a psycho and we shouldn't ask for their input on transportation topics.
- estearum 1y ago
  JFK to Manhattan is actually not that easy for a newcomer. JFK → Airtrain → LIRR → Subway is a very stupid design. That said, yes GP is obviously a psycho.
- CPLX 1y ago
  Oh my sweet summer child. I've got news for you about how dysfunctional New York City transit planning has been and the status of transit to our three giant airports.
- crazygringo 1y ago
  You do realize that public transportation doesn't provide luggage carts? That you can't take those out of the airport? If you're traveling with a family or group, it really is often going to be much easier to take an XL Uber than deal with turnstiles and transfers and stairs and everything.
  - 1y ago

asadm 1y ago

couldn't you have arrived 10 minutes later or was endangering life worth it?

toast0 1y ago
I certainly could have arrived 10 minutes later, but I wouldn't say that arriving 10 minutes later would result in a better experience in every way. It might result in a hypothetically safer experience (in the instance, there were no collisions so safety was achieved) or a morally better experience (according to the HN consensus morals that deem me a psychopath for either taking a cab at all or because I did not intervene and let the cab driver drive as he saw fit). Up to you what criteria you judge the overall trip on, I'm just pointing out that if the trip time is longer, the trip is not better in every way; at least absent an unusual requirement such as if you wanted to see the sights on the way, a shorter but less scenic trip would be a negative; or if you had a timing constraint that you must not arrive before a certain time, a shorter trip might infringe that constraint and would be a negative --- no such constraint was mentioned. I don't know that any life was endangered either. I would accept an argument that property was endangered, certainly the margin between vehicles was very close, but at speeds where a collision would not have been injurious.

lo_zamoyski 1y ago

Uh...driving in the shoulder is illegal.

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

> it would have taken at least 10 more minutes to arrive. (And it wouldn't have been an authentic NYC experience) Lived in New York for 10+ years and still go back regularly. This is unacceptable behaviour by a cabbie. Given the amount of construction and thus police presence on that route right now, you’re lucky you didn’t get a 60-minute bonus when the cab got pulled over. (The pro move during rush hour and construction is (a) not to, but if you have to, (b) taking the AirTrain and LIRR.)