3 ms·

Something I use as a heuristic that is pretty reliable is "am I treating a thing like a person, or a person like a thing?" If so then, maybe not necessarily bad

Something I use as a heuristic that is pretty reliable is "am I treating a thing like a person, or a person like a thing?" If so then, maybe not necessarily bad but probably bad. It's not about whether it's "real" or not. In this case of AI relationships, extremely sophisticated and poorly understood mechanisms of social-emotional communication and meaning making that have previously only ever been used for bonding with other people, and to a limited extent animals, are being directed at a machine. And we find that the mechanisms respond to that machine as if there is a person there, when there is not. There is a lot of novel stuff happening there, technologically, socially, psychologically. We don't really know, and I don't trust anyone who is confidently predicting, what effects that will have on the person doing it, or their other social bonds. Wrestling is theater! It's an ancient craft, well understood. If you're going to approach AI relationships as a natural extension of some well established human activity probably pet bonding is the closest. I don't think it's even that close though.

notepad0x90 11mo ago
But you know that the alternative is a lot of other mental illnesses, including things like suicide. Everyone tells people "get mental help" but is neither cheap, nor accessible to most people.
- giraffe_lady 11mo ago
  I've seen no evidence that this sort of relationship to AI use is an effective alternative to mental health treatment. In fact it's so far looking to be about the opposite: as currently implemented LLMs are reinforcement tools for delusional thinking and have already been a known factor in several suicides. The inaccessibility of healthcare in the US is a serious problem but this is not a solution or alternative to it right now and may never become one.
  - notepad0x90 11mo ago
    To me what you're saying is akin to "I see no evidence lab grown food is healthier than real food, so people under famine and malnourishment should instead wait for someone to give them aid instead of eat lab grown food". I don't think AI can replace mental health treatment or human relationships. But it might be a viable stop-gap. It's like tom hanks talking to "Wilson" the volleyball when he was stuck on island in "cast away". Yeah, it's weird, but it helped him survive and cope until he was rescued. I want these people struggling with mental health to survive and cope until they get real help some day. I want less suicides, less people contracting chronic illnesses,etc.. and to hell with any "appearances" of weirdness or stigma.
    - giraffe_lady 11mo ago
      You're not engaging with my comments in favor of arguing with words I didn't say in defense of positions I don't hold. I don't really see a role for myself in that activity so I'll leave you to it.
      - notepad0x90 11mo ago
        I don't think that's fair, i was mostly respond to your first sentence and: > The inaccessibility of healthcare in the US is a serious problem but this is not a solution or alternative to it right now and may never become one. My response was clearly not your words, but my understanding of your conclusion. The few suicides that are reported pale in comparison to suicides caused by loneliness. An argument can also be made that they just haven't trained/found the right companion model yet.

notepad0x90 11mo ago

But you know that the alternative is a lot of other mental illnesses, including things like suicide. Everyone tells people "get mental help" but is neither cheap, nor accessible to most people.

giraffe_lady 11mo ago
I've seen no evidence that this sort of relationship to AI use is an effective alternative to mental health treatment. In fact it's so far looking to be about the opposite: as currently implemented LLMs are reinforcement tools for delusional thinking and have already been a known factor in several suicides. The inaccessibility of healthcare in the US is a serious problem but this is not a solution or alternative to it right now and may never become one.
- notepad0x90 11mo ago
  To me what you're saying is akin to "I see no evidence lab grown food is healthier than real food, so people under famine and malnourishment should instead wait for someone to give them aid instead of eat lab grown food". I don't think AI can replace mental health treatment or human relationships. But it might be a viable stop-gap. It's like tom hanks talking to "Wilson" the volleyball when he was stuck on island in "cast away". Yeah, it's weird, but it helped him survive and cope until he was rescued. I want these people struggling with mental health to survive and cope until they get real help some day. I want less suicides, less people contracting chronic illnesses,etc.. and to hell with any "appearances" of weirdness or stigma.
  - giraffe_lady 11mo ago
    You're not engaging with my comments in favor of arguing with words I didn't say in defense of positions I don't hold. I don't really see a role for myself in that activity so I'll leave you to it.
    - notepad0x90 11mo ago
      I don't think that's fair, i was mostly respond to your first sentence and: > The inaccessibility of healthcare in the US is a serious problem but this is not a solution or alternative to it right now and may never become one. My response was clearly not your words, but my understanding of your conclusion. The few suicides that are reported pale in comparison to suicides caused by loneliness. An argument can also be made that they just haven't trained/found the right companion model yet.