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Metro Apps Can Only Be Distributed Through Windows Store

71 points by k-mcgrady 14y ago

k-mcgrady 14y ago
I was surprised to read this. I assumed that Windows 8 only contained the 'desktop' to give developers time to convert their apps to work on metro and that Microsoft would deprecate the desktop in Windows 9 or 10. If they did do that Windows would become a closed platform. With this restriction in Windows 8 Windows is seemingly more closed than OS X. Apple restricts certain features like iCloud to App Store apps but restricting apps from using the main UI on your OS is another matter.
- facorreia 14y ago
  Microsoft is obsessed about backward compatibility. They have to be to continue being the dominant force in the corporate market. They won't even have a choice not to support desk-top style apps for the next 20 years, even if at some point they will run in some kind of virtualized environment.
  - niggler 14y ago
    Funny thing: lots of businesses still use windows XP. Backward compatibility is nice but running XP is much better than hoping stuff will work on windows 7 or 8. 20 years from now I wouldnt be surprised to see XP still used ...
    - facorreia 14y ago
      For that there is the so Microsoft-named "Microsoft Enterprise Desktop Virtualization". http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/enterprise/products-and-technologies/mdop/med-v.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/enterprise/products-a...
    - carlisle_ 14y ago
      >hoping That's why you test - so you know whether or not something works. Additionally, there are significantly more important factors to consider than whether or a particular OS runs your application.
      - niggler 14y ago
        As a business owner with a process that has worked for X>0 years, unless there is a very compelling reason to do so, you don't want to risk disrupting your business with an upgrade of any core piece, especially the operating system. Testing is fine and dandy, and breaks are acceptable in some circles, but in mission critical situations you can't be as frivolous.
        carlisle_ 14y ago
        There are reasons why you would want to upgrade, security, forward-compatibility, and product support. Since XP is becoming completely unsupported in a year, that's a very compelling reason. Your last sentence doesn't really make any sense. If you're testing thoroughly you shouldn't run into any issues that are completely breaking.
  - niggler 14y ago
    Funny thing: lots of businesses still use windows XP. Backward compatibility is nice but running XP is much better than hoping stuff will work on windows 7 or 8. 20 years from now I wouldnt be surprised to see XP still used ...
- y0ghur7_xxx 14y ago
  I think Apples long term plan is the same: make a closed ecosystem on the Desktop exactly like the one on iOS. There is no incentive that I can see for them to keep it open. It worked well on mobile, why not do the same on the desktop? But of course it's only speculation at this point.
  - MatthewPhillips 14y ago
    How will one develop apps in such an environment?
    - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
      Similarly to how you do on Windows 8 just now, I would imagine. XCode would work fine, can compile apps, run them for debugging locally. You just can't debug apps without getting a developer key, and that developer key would only be valid for your machine.
      - MatthewPhillips 14y ago
        The grandparent described the environment being "exactly" like iOS. That would mean no terminal, for example. It would mean no 3rd party dev tools that can do much of anything (except SSH into another computer and do dev there). No Homebrew. Web development would be impossible - all web devs would leave. Sounds like a lot of negatives for Apple and few positives. Makes more sense to make it difficult for common users to do the things they don't want them to do.
        TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
        Sure, the default environment would be. But I expect they would do something where, if you had a paid developer license (or some sort of free "local debugging" license), they would unlock the Terminal and some form of IDE.
        y0ghur7_xxx 14y ago
        > The grandparent described the environment being "exactly" like iOS. Let me make my point clearer: I was talking about the ability of downloading and installing apps freely from the internet. What I meant was a closed ecosystem where you can only use approved apps from the app store without the ability to install apps from third partys. That does not mean that you can't use the terminal or XCode (if those are approved apps), or get a "developer license" to "unlock" your Mac.
- MatthewPhillips 14y ago
  I think it will be more along the lines with how they got rid of DOS. The command prompt still exists, it's just hidden away. You can't exit windows to dos like you used to be able to do. Same thing will happen with the desktop. Today on the Metro start screen the desktop has a first-row tile but I imagine eventually it will have no tile and you'll have to search for it. Effectively making it not exist for the common user. But Microsoft is still investing a lot of money in desktop software. Not user-facing software. But much of their code assumes more capabilities than what WinRT allows. All of the developer tools, for example. Think about a memory diagnostic tools, that is of course impossible in WinRT. Powershell is impossible in WinRT.
  - mbell 14y ago
    > I think it will be more along the lines with how they got rid of DOS. The command prompt still exists, it's just hidden away. You can't exit windows to dos like you used to be able to do. DOS isn't a command prompt its an operating system. DOS wasn't 'hidden away' its gone. Windows 3.1 was really just a GUI running on top of MS-DOS. 95, 98, and ME used MS-DOS as a bootloader to get windows running, basically flipping the CPU into protected mode then handing it over to windows. The WinNT family wasn't built on top of DOS at all but rather has a standalone kernal. DOS programs were only supported by a virtual machine (and aren't supported at all in 64bit windows, DOS is completely gone there). I don't see much connection at all between DOS and Metro, Metro is just a UI.
    - MatthewPhillips 14y ago
      Calm down, I understand all of that. My point is that they didn't take away the functionality of DOS, and it mostly exists to this day. Even the default Visual Studio project is a command line program (last time I checked). I see the same future for the desktop.
      - homosaur 14y ago
        By that analogy, only Microsoft blessed developers could make desktop apps and all others who wanted to distribute independently will be forced to use the command line.
- powertower 14y ago
  > I assumed that Windows 8 only contained the 'desktop' to give developers time to convert their apps to work on metro and that Microsoft would deprecate the desktop in Windows 9 or 10. Where did you get this idea from? The Desktop is here to stay, because it's the only way to run real applications that need a bit more than touch gestures. Let me help you out... Metro -> For Consumers (silly games, twitter, browsing internet, and buying shit) Desktop -> For Producers (VS.NET, Office, dev and server stuff, real applications, etc) Windows 8 basically is one OS for both Tablets and PCs. That's all there is to it.
  - WayneDB 14y ago
    I think the idea comes from observing Microsoft's own behavior: - They foist the Metro UI on you by starting your "desktop" OS directly to that new UI as if to say "not only is this new UI not going away, but we're going to force you to look at it." - It's all they can talk about, within the realm of UI tech. - When Microsoft finds a new thing to talk about, they stop talking about the old things and the old things simply die off or at the very least, receive very little new development. So, the idea that Windows 8 only contains the desktop to give developers time to convert their apps to work on metro may not be very far from the truth.
- Aaronontheweb 14y ago
  Former Micrsoftie (left in August) and founder of a startup that exclusively targets Win8 developers here. There's some FUD here that I need to clear up. 1. All Metro / Windows Store apps have to be distributed through the Windows Store for mass distribution - that much is true. There are good reasons for this - namely it saves you the trouble of having to write installers for three separate hardware architectures (ARM, X86, X64) and makes it comparatively low-friction to distribute your app compared to traditional desktop applications. 2. It's pretty easy to side-load applications on a one-to-one basis for developers who are running non-ARM devices; you can package an app automatically from Visual Studio with a self-install PowerShell script and installing an app is as easy as emailing someone a zip file with the app package + install script. This was how we tested apps among distributed teams internally at Microsoft and how all of the early third-party developers did it. I only did this on X64 devices so I'm not sure if there's support for X86 and I'm pretty sure ARM doesn't support this. 3. Enterprises have the ability to create their own bolt-on to the app store using Active Directory to ensure that all of their employees can get access to private, line-of-business Metro apps that they don't want exposed in the public app store. 4. Traditional desktop applications, non-Metro ones, can still be distributed the old fashioned way. My previous employer before Microsoft has no plans to put its desktop software in the Windows Store and frankly I don't think it will affect them much. For the desktop, look at Metro as a way to have some content-focused apps and games that come to life directly on your desktop through live tiles. Don't look at them as replacements for heavy-weight, traditional desktop applications. That's not their point. Windows isn't going to be a closed platform - if anything Metro makes Windows more accessible to a larger number of developers. Shipping a traditional desktop application is an epic pain in the ass compared to shipping a Metro-style app. Metro makes it a lot easier for most developers to sell native apps on Windows.
  - antidoh 14y ago
    "Metro makes it a lot easier for most developers to sell native apps on Windows." As long as Microsoft approves your app. I want my politically incorrect apps, full of boobs, farts, surveillance evading tools and bomb-making instructions.
    - 14y ago
- brudgers 14y ago
  The notion of Microsoft getting rid of the desktop in favor of a locked down OS which only allows applications which running in sandboxes will make sense when Visual Studio is converted to do so. Or to put it another way, don't expect Microsoft to change the dogfood's dog food's to something they cannot eat. As a corollary, Windows 8 applications and RT devices will be suitable for the sorts of corporate tasks non-programmers at Microsoft perform in the course of their work.
TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
I thought this was common knowledge. Yes, they are only distributable through the store. Yes, the only sideloading is from Visual Studio. Anyone who's spent a little time researching Windows 8 will probably already know this.
eckyptang 14y ago
This is correct and very common knowledge. However traditional apps can be linked from the store and regularly are already so no one is missing out.
- omegant 14y ago
  How do you do that? So can still install the software you want on windows 8 or you need to go through store each time?
  - luchs 14y ago
    You can continue to install your things just the way you did in previous Windows versions.
    - eckyptang 14y ago
      Exactly that. I'm genuinely surprised at some of the things people haven't quite grasped about Windows 8. To put it simply: Windows 8 is the same as Windows 7 but it has a new interface layer (Metro) which replaces the start menu and adds an app store for Metro and normal apps. Everything you did in Windows 7 is just the same bar the start button.
      - omegant 14y ago
        Thanks, This is what I thought in may when I read about windows 8. But I feared I got everything wrong and actually every single app or soctware must go though the store and be controlled by MS , as if it were an Iphone. By the way we are developing an app that will be downloaded from our web. Now going to the store would be a trouble to us...
mkup 14y ago
Microsoft has protected itself from the next Netscape Navigator. Now every software vendor for Metro/WinRT is effectively running a market research for Microsoft: what feature should be included to the next version of Windows? And after adsorbtion of that feature, third party app can be kicked out off the MS app store. The golden age of Windows shareware and ISVs is coming to the end. Or we will use Windows 7 for 20 years as we did with XP for 10 years from its release date.
- silverbax88 14y ago
  There are still corporations running XP and only now considering a move to Windows 7. They ignored Vista entirely, and they will do the same with Windows 8.
jman1 14y ago
Why is this surprising?
- nsmartt 14y ago
  Does it need to be surprising?
tonetheman 14y ago
Pretty sure they are just doing what Apple is already doing. Apple's really closed and locked down platform is doing great, I am sure Microsoft is wanting to emulate them. If you reading this post on an IPad or your iphone or your mac book pro, you have already voted on the closed platform and how much you love it with your wallet. So get over it.
- prof_hobart 14y ago
  The MacBook Pro is not a closed platform yet. I can still create and distribute Mac apps in any medium that I feel like. On Mountain Lion, the default security options may make it a little more difficult to exectute apps that have neither been distributed via Apple nor signed with them, but there are entirely official ways of getting round this if needed. I'm not saying that Apple won't go down this route for Mac at some point. But they have gone there yet.
- aMacbook 14y ago
  Please explain how a Macbook Pro is a closed platform.
  - tonetheman 14y ago
    Well I was really talking about the App Store. OSX and Windows both are going to have approved apps (the stuff you can get in their stores) then red headed step child apps that you get else where. MBP are not closed exactly but they have the same model that everyone is bitching about for windows.
    - rsynnott 14y ago
      No, they don't. I can download and run a Cocoa app which would be much the same as a Cocoa app I get in the app store. I can't do the same with a Metro app.
- nsmartt 14y ago
  This is a failed view. Yes, they've voted with their wallets, but "get over it" isn't the appropriate response. The appropriate response would be to point out that the time for change is here, and you pretty much have to start voting the other way if you're opposed to this direction.
wslh 14y ago
Going backwards. In some way Microsoft was more open in the desktop and the mobile (with the old windows mobile OS) than Apple. Now all the vendors gave the opportunity to Microsoft to be more close. Now all behave like monopolies.
- lttlrck 14y ago
  "Now all behave like monopolies." !?
silverbax88 14y ago
I've read as much as I can about Windows 8, tried the preview, worked with a Windows phone. Honestly, I can't see Windows 8 being anything but a colossal failure on the desktop, ala Vista. Everyone on the planet seems to be telling Microsoft to have two OS versions, one for mobile and one for desktop, but they are not listening. I would be seriously worried if I was a Microsoft investor, and I say that as a guy who's built primarily C# apps for the last five years.
- devindra 14y ago
  Well they still have two OS versions (although Windows Phone 8 now shares the Win 8 kernel). The real question is if Microsoft's long bet on tablets and touchscreen PCs being the future of desktops is a good one. For once, I think Microsoft is aiming big with its OS, and that's something to be admired. It's going to piss of techies, but it has a real shot at making tablets and hybrid PCs more useful for everyone else. Also, it seems pretty clear to me that Win 7 is going to stick around for a long time, perhaps even longer than XP. That'll likely be the go-to OS for techies and people building desktops down the line.
- recoiledsnake 14y ago
  Apple and Google view the tablet as an oversized phone, Microsoft views it as an undersized laptop or desktop. That's a philosophical difference right there. The real test of Windows 8 will be on devices like the Surface Pro and other x86 tablets about to enter the market. Instead of being designed and used mostly as a consumption device like the iPad and Android tablets, you can run the full Visual Studio or Eclipse on them anywhere you go. Microsoft hopes to leverage the sales of those and other touchscreen ultrabooks, laptops into apps and support for Windows RT. If they made Metro run only on Windows RT tablets, it risks suffering the same fate as Windows Phone, a very nice platform with little uptake because of user and developer mindshare consumed by the iPad and Android tablets. From that perspective, Windows 8 make a lot of sense.
electic 14y ago
Please don't think this is bad. The more closed these guys get, the more of a window they open up for Linux Operating Systems or alternatives. Developers and consumers alike, will start taking a long hard look at their options.
recoiledsnake 14y ago
Isn't this old news? Like a year old at this point? Why did anyone think Metro apps could be sideloaded except by enterprises? Didn't we have long discussions on Hacker News about this very same topic from a year? Article from a year ago: http://venturebeat.com/2011/09/19/windows-metro-apps-distribution/ http://venturebeat.com/2011/09/19/windows-metro-apps-distrib... As to why they're doing it, it's simple. They want Metro to avoid headlines like these: http://www.google.com/#q=android+malware&hl=en&prmd=imvnsu&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ei=mAtnUP_xHMiP0QGdsYG4CQ&ved=0CAoQ_AUoBA&fp=1&biw=1247&bih=677&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&cad=b http://www.google.com/#q=android+malware&hl=en&prmd=... Windows Store is a bit more open on things like in-app purchases(third party payment systems allowed) and developer cut(only 25% above 25K).
- lazugod 14y ago
  It's old news, but it's still a surprise to people.
- sutro 14y ago
  Your first link from a year ago discusses how tablet apps on Windows RT - the ARM version of Win8 - will be restricted. Yes, that is old news. This statement that Metro apps on the flagship desktop version of Win 8 will also be restricted is news to me. Regarding your second point about malware, Microsoft is not doing this out of concern for the safety of their customers but rather to increase their own profits and control. But for PR and anti-trust-avoidance purposes, they will sell the loss of freedom as an increase in safety. It's the same bogus argument that overreaching governments use.
  - dantiberian 14y ago
    There are many reasons why Microsoft would want to place restrictions on Metro app distribution but profit is not one of them. Apple's iTunes store is running at break even [0][1] so it seems unlikely to me that Microsoft would be able to make a significant profit in their Windows Store. [0] http://www.asymco.com/2011/06/13/itunes-now-costs-1-3-billionyr-to-run/ http://www.asymco.com/2011/06/13/itunes-now-costs-1-3-billio... [1] http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/apple_app_store_runs_just_above_break_even/ http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/apple_app_store_runs_...
homosaur 14y ago
Perhaps this IS old news, but I certainly didn't understand it if it was. So basically Windows is creating a two tier system where blessed developers can get access to key system functionality where others are left to the "legacy" desktop. Windows 7 will almost certainly be the final time that Windows get installed on one of my PCs. With Steam coming out on Linux and shockingly even Apple having a more coherent idea about system security, I don't see a lot of reason to deal with Windows' legacy bullcrap anymore.
- recoiledsnake 14y ago
  > So basically Windows is creating a two tier system where blessed developers can get access to key system functionality where others are left to the "legacy" desktop It's actually kind of the other way around, desktop apps can mess around with much more on the system than Metro apps can, except for some new APIs. > shockingly even Apple having a more coherent idea about system security How so? What has system security to do with this? If anything, malware authors will have trouble running their malware on Windows RT tablets and in Metro.
  - k-mcgrady 14y ago
    >> "It's actually kind of the other way around, desktop apps can mess around with much more on the system than Metro apps can, except for some new APIs." This may be true but the majority of Windows 8 users are probably going to want to use the new Metro interface. I've only being using the OS for a month and it already annoys me to have to switch to the old desktop interface. Preventing apps not distributed through the store access the new interface isn't right. Customers will want it and developers will have little choice. Either piss off customers or give Microsoft a cut of your sales and distribute through them.
nvrmor 14y ago
This is primarily why I hope win8 fails
nohorse 14y ago
there will be homebrew alternatives for distribution. It won't be that locked down. Any dev can side-load today, so I'm sure with a little ingenuity XDA or another community will have a convenient wrapper for the makeappx utility that comes with studio. Go get free tools and give it a shot.

71 points by k-mcgrady 14y ago

I was surprised to read this. I assumed that Windows 8 only contained the 'desktop' to give developers time to convert their apps to work on metro and that Microsoft would deprecate the desktop in Windows 9 or 10. If they did do that Windows would become a closed platform. With this restriction in Windows 8 Windows is seemingly more closed than OS X. Apple restricts certain features like iCloud to App Store apps but restricting apps from using the main UI on your OS is another matter.

facorreia 14y ago
Microsoft is obsessed about backward compatibility. They have to be to continue being the dominant force in the corporate market. They won't even have a choice not to support desk-top style apps for the next 20 years, even if at some point they will run in some kind of virtualized environment.
- niggler 14y ago
  Funny thing: lots of businesses still use windows XP. Backward compatibility is nice but running XP is much better than hoping stuff will work on windows 7 or 8. 20 years from now I wouldnt be surprised to see XP still used ...
  - facorreia 14y ago
    For that there is the so Microsoft-named "Microsoft Enterprise Desktop Virtualization". http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/enterprise/products-and-technologies/mdop/med-v.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/enterprise/products-a...
  - carlisle_ 14y ago
    >hoping That's why you test - so you know whether or not something works. Additionally, there are significantly more important factors to consider than whether or a particular OS runs your application.
    - niggler 14y ago
      As a business owner with a process that has worked for X>0 years, unless there is a very compelling reason to do so, you don't want to risk disrupting your business with an upgrade of any core piece, especially the operating system. Testing is fine and dandy, and breaks are acceptable in some circles, but in mission critical situations you can't be as frivolous.
      - carlisle_ 14y ago
        There are reasons why you would want to upgrade, security, forward-compatibility, and product support. Since XP is becoming completely unsupported in a year, that's a very compelling reason. Your last sentence doesn't really make any sense. If you're testing thoroughly you shouldn't run into any issues that are completely breaking.
- niggler 14y ago
  Funny thing: lots of businesses still use windows XP. Backward compatibility is nice but running XP is much better than hoping stuff will work on windows 7 or 8. 20 years from now I wouldnt be surprised to see XP still used ...
y0ghur7_xxx 14y ago
I think Apples long term plan is the same: make a closed ecosystem on the Desktop exactly like the one on iOS. There is no incentive that I can see for them to keep it open. It worked well on mobile, why not do the same on the desktop? But of course it's only speculation at this point.
- MatthewPhillips 14y ago
  How will one develop apps in such an environment?
  - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
    Similarly to how you do on Windows 8 just now, I would imagine. XCode would work fine, can compile apps, run them for debugging locally. You just can't debug apps without getting a developer key, and that developer key would only be valid for your machine.
    - MatthewPhillips 14y ago
      The grandparent described the environment being "exactly" like iOS. That would mean no terminal, for example. It would mean no 3rd party dev tools that can do much of anything (except SSH into another computer and do dev there). No Homebrew. Web development would be impossible - all web devs would leave. Sounds like a lot of negatives for Apple and few positives. Makes more sense to make it difficult for common users to do the things they don't want them to do.
      - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
        Sure, the default environment would be. But I expect they would do something where, if you had a paid developer license (or some sort of free "local debugging" license), they would unlock the Terminal and some form of IDE.
      - y0ghur7_xxx 14y ago
        > The grandparent described the environment being "exactly" like iOS. Let me make my point clearer: I was talking about the ability of downloading and installing apps freely from the internet. What I meant was a closed ecosystem where you can only use approved apps from the app store without the ability to install apps from third partys. That does not mean that you can't use the terminal or XCode (if those are approved apps), or get a "developer license" to "unlock" your Mac.
MatthewPhillips 14y ago
I think it will be more along the lines with how they got rid of DOS. The command prompt still exists, it's just hidden away. You can't exit windows to dos like you used to be able to do. Same thing will happen with the desktop. Today on the Metro start screen the desktop has a first-row tile but I imagine eventually it will have no tile and you'll have to search for it. Effectively making it not exist for the common user. But Microsoft is still investing a lot of money in desktop software. Not user-facing software. But much of their code assumes more capabilities than what WinRT allows. All of the developer tools, for example. Think about a memory diagnostic tools, that is of course impossible in WinRT. Powershell is impossible in WinRT.
- mbell 14y ago
  > I think it will be more along the lines with how they got rid of DOS. The command prompt still exists, it's just hidden away. You can't exit windows to dos like you used to be able to do. DOS isn't a command prompt its an operating system. DOS wasn't 'hidden away' its gone. Windows 3.1 was really just a GUI running on top of MS-DOS. 95, 98, and ME used MS-DOS as a bootloader to get windows running, basically flipping the CPU into protected mode then handing it over to windows. The WinNT family wasn't built on top of DOS at all but rather has a standalone kernal. DOS programs were only supported by a virtual machine (and aren't supported at all in 64bit windows, DOS is completely gone there). I don't see much connection at all between DOS and Metro, Metro is just a UI.
  - MatthewPhillips 14y ago
    Calm down, I understand all of that. My point is that they didn't take away the functionality of DOS, and it mostly exists to this day. Even the default Visual Studio project is a command line program (last time I checked). I see the same future for the desktop.
    - homosaur 14y ago
      By that analogy, only Microsoft blessed developers could make desktop apps and all others who wanted to distribute independently will be forced to use the command line.
powertower 14y ago
> I assumed that Windows 8 only contained the 'desktop' to give developers time to convert their apps to work on metro and that Microsoft would deprecate the desktop in Windows 9 or 10. Where did you get this idea from? The Desktop is here to stay, because it's the only way to run real applications that need a bit more than touch gestures. Let me help you out... Metro -> For Consumers (silly games, twitter, browsing internet, and buying shit) Desktop -> For Producers (VS.NET, Office, dev and server stuff, real applications, etc) Windows 8 basically is one OS for both Tablets and PCs. That's all there is to it.
- WayneDB 14y ago
  I think the idea comes from observing Microsoft's own behavior: - They foist the Metro UI on you by starting your "desktop" OS directly to that new UI as if to say "not only is this new UI not going away, but we're going to force you to look at it." - It's all they can talk about, within the realm of UI tech. - When Microsoft finds a new thing to talk about, they stop talking about the old things and the old things simply die off or at the very least, receive very little new development. So, the idea that Windows 8 only contains the desktop to give developers time to convert their apps to work on metro may not be very far from the truth.
Aaronontheweb 14y ago
Former Micrsoftie (left in August) and founder of a startup that exclusively targets Win8 developers here. There's some FUD here that I need to clear up. 1. All Metro / Windows Store apps have to be distributed through the Windows Store for mass distribution - that much is true. There are good reasons for this - namely it saves you the trouble of having to write installers for three separate hardware architectures (ARM, X86, X64) and makes it comparatively low-friction to distribute your app compared to traditional desktop applications. 2. It's pretty easy to side-load applications on a one-to-one basis for developers who are running non-ARM devices; you can package an app automatically from Visual Studio with a self-install PowerShell script and installing an app is as easy as emailing someone a zip file with the app package + install script. This was how we tested apps among distributed teams internally at Microsoft and how all of the early third-party developers did it. I only did this on X64 devices so I'm not sure if there's support for X86 and I'm pretty sure ARM doesn't support this. 3. Enterprises have the ability to create their own bolt-on to the app store using Active Directory to ensure that all of their employees can get access to private, line-of-business Metro apps that they don't want exposed in the public app store. 4. Traditional desktop applications, non-Metro ones, can still be distributed the old fashioned way. My previous employer before Microsoft has no plans to put its desktop software in the Windows Store and frankly I don't think it will affect them much. For the desktop, look at Metro as a way to have some content-focused apps and games that come to life directly on your desktop through live tiles. Don't look at them as replacements for heavy-weight, traditional desktop applications. That's not their point. Windows isn't going to be a closed platform - if anything Metro makes Windows more accessible to a larger number of developers. Shipping a traditional desktop application is an epic pain in the ass compared to shipping a Metro-style app. Metro makes it a lot easier for most developers to sell native apps on Windows.
- antidoh 14y ago
  "Metro makes it a lot easier for most developers to sell native apps on Windows." As long as Microsoft approves your app. I want my politically incorrect apps, full of boobs, farts, surveillance evading tools and bomb-making instructions.
  - 14y ago
brudgers 14y ago
The notion of Microsoft getting rid of the desktop in favor of a locked down OS which only allows applications which running in sandboxes will make sense when Visual Studio is converted to do so. Or to put it another way, don't expect Microsoft to change the dogfood's dog food's to something they cannot eat. As a corollary, Windows 8 applications and RT devices will be suitable for the sorts of corporate tasks non-programmers at Microsoft perform in the course of their work.

TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago

I thought this was common knowledge. Yes, they are only distributable through the store. Yes, the only sideloading is from Visual Studio. Anyone who's spent a little time researching Windows 8 will probably already know this.

eckyptang 14y ago

This is correct and very common knowledge. However traditional apps can be linked from the store and regularly are already so no one is missing out.

omegant 14y ago
How do you do that? So can still install the software you want on windows 8 or you need to go through store each time?
- luchs 14y ago
  You can continue to install your things just the way you did in previous Windows versions.
  - eckyptang 14y ago
    Exactly that. I'm genuinely surprised at some of the things people haven't quite grasped about Windows 8. To put it simply: Windows 8 is the same as Windows 7 but it has a new interface layer (Metro) which replaces the start menu and adds an app store for Metro and normal apps. Everything you did in Windows 7 is just the same bar the start button.
    - omegant 14y ago
      Thanks, This is what I thought in may when I read about windows 8. But I feared I got everything wrong and actually every single app or soctware must go though the store and be controlled by MS , as if it were an Iphone. By the way we are developing an app that will be downloaded from our web. Now going to the store would be a trouble to us...

mkup 14y ago

Microsoft has protected itself from the next Netscape Navigator. Now every software vendor for Metro/WinRT is effectively running a market research for Microsoft: what feature should be included to the next version of Windows? And after adsorbtion of that feature, third party app can be kicked out off the MS app store. The golden age of Windows shareware and ISVs is coming to the end. Or we will use Windows 7 for 20 years as we did with XP for 10 years from its release date.

silverbax88 14y ago
There are still corporations running XP and only now considering a move to Windows 7. They ignored Vista entirely, and they will do the same with Windows 8.

jman1 14y ago

Why is this surprising?

nsmartt 14y ago
Does it need to be surprising?

tonetheman 14y ago

Pretty sure they are just doing what Apple is already doing. Apple's really closed and locked down platform is doing great, I am sure Microsoft is wanting to emulate them. If you reading this post on an IPad or your iphone or your mac book pro, you have already voted on the closed platform and how much you love it with your wallet. So get over it.

prof_hobart 14y ago
The MacBook Pro is not a closed platform yet. I can still create and distribute Mac apps in any medium that I feel like. On Mountain Lion, the default security options may make it a little more difficult to exectute apps that have neither been distributed via Apple nor signed with them, but there are entirely official ways of getting round this if needed. I'm not saying that Apple won't go down this route for Mac at some point. But they have gone there yet.
aMacbook 14y ago
Please explain how a Macbook Pro is a closed platform.
- tonetheman 14y ago
  Well I was really talking about the App Store. OSX and Windows both are going to have approved apps (the stuff you can get in their stores) then red headed step child apps that you get else where. MBP are not closed exactly but they have the same model that everyone is bitching about for windows.
  - rsynnott 14y ago
    No, they don't. I can download and run a Cocoa app which would be much the same as a Cocoa app I get in the app store. I can't do the same with a Metro app.
nsmartt 14y ago
This is a failed view. Yes, they've voted with their wallets, but "get over it" isn't the appropriate response. The appropriate response would be to point out that the time for change is here, and you pretty much have to start voting the other way if you're opposed to this direction.

wslh 14y ago

Going backwards. In some way Microsoft was more open in the desktop and the mobile (with the old windows mobile OS) than Apple. Now all the vendors gave the opportunity to Microsoft to be more close. Now all behave like monopolies.

lttlrck 14y ago
"Now all behave like monopolies." !?

silverbax88 14y ago

I've read as much as I can about Windows 8, tried the preview, worked with a Windows phone. Honestly, I can't see Windows 8 being anything but a colossal failure on the desktop, ala Vista. Everyone on the planet seems to be telling Microsoft to have two OS versions, one for mobile and one for desktop, but they are not listening. I would be seriously worried if I was a Microsoft investor, and I say that as a guy who's built primarily C# apps for the last five years.

devindra 14y ago
Well they still have two OS versions (although Windows Phone 8 now shares the Win 8 kernel). The real question is if Microsoft's long bet on tablets and touchscreen PCs being the future of desktops is a good one. For once, I think Microsoft is aiming big with its OS, and that's something to be admired. It's going to piss of techies, but it has a real shot at making tablets and hybrid PCs more useful for everyone else. Also, it seems pretty clear to me that Win 7 is going to stick around for a long time, perhaps even longer than XP. That'll likely be the go-to OS for techies and people building desktops down the line.
recoiledsnake 14y ago
Apple and Google view the tablet as an oversized phone, Microsoft views it as an undersized laptop or desktop. That's a philosophical difference right there. The real test of Windows 8 will be on devices like the Surface Pro and other x86 tablets about to enter the market. Instead of being designed and used mostly as a consumption device like the iPad and Android tablets, you can run the full Visual Studio or Eclipse on them anywhere you go. Microsoft hopes to leverage the sales of those and other touchscreen ultrabooks, laptops into apps and support for Windows RT. If they made Metro run only on Windows RT tablets, it risks suffering the same fate as Windows Phone, a very nice platform with little uptake because of user and developer mindshare consumed by the iPad and Android tablets. From that perspective, Windows 8 make a lot of sense.

electic 14y ago

Please don't think this is bad. The more closed these guys get, the more of a window they open up for Linux Operating Systems or alternatives. Developers and consumers alike, will start taking a long hard look at their options.

recoiledsnake 14y ago

Isn't this old news? Like a year old at this point? Why did anyone think Metro apps could be sideloaded except by enterprises? Didn't we have long discussions on Hacker News about this very same topic from a year? Article from a year ago: http://venturebeat.com/2011/09/19/windows-metro-apps-distribution/ http://venturebeat.com/2011/09/19/windows-metro-apps-distrib... As to why they're doing it, it's simple. They want Metro to avoid headlines like these: http://www.google.com/#q=android+malware&hl=en&prmd=imvnsu&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ei=mAtnUP_xHMiP0QGdsYG4CQ&ved=0CAoQ_AUoBA&fp=1&biw=1247&bih=677&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&cad=b http://www.google.com/#q=android+malware&hl=en&prmd=... Windows Store is a bit more open on things like in-app purchases(third party payment systems allowed) and developer cut(only 25% above 25K).

lazugod 14y ago
It's old news, but it's still a surprise to people.
sutro 14y ago
Your first link from a year ago discusses how tablet apps on Windows RT - the ARM version of Win8 - will be restricted. Yes, that is old news. This statement that Metro apps on the flagship desktop version of Win 8 will also be restricted is news to me. Regarding your second point about malware, Microsoft is not doing this out of concern for the safety of their customers but rather to increase their own profits and control. But for PR and anti-trust-avoidance purposes, they will sell the loss of freedom as an increase in safety. It's the same bogus argument that overreaching governments use.
- dantiberian 14y ago
  There are many reasons why Microsoft would want to place restrictions on Metro app distribution but profit is not one of them. Apple's iTunes store is running at break even [0][1] so it seems unlikely to me that Microsoft would be able to make a significant profit in their Windows Store. [0] http://www.asymco.com/2011/06/13/itunes-now-costs-1-3-billionyr-to-run/ http://www.asymco.com/2011/06/13/itunes-now-costs-1-3-billio... [1] http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/apple_app_store_runs_just_above_break_even/ http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/apple_app_store_runs_...

homosaur 14y ago

Perhaps this IS old news, but I certainly didn't understand it if it was. So basically Windows is creating a two tier system where blessed developers can get access to key system functionality where others are left to the "legacy" desktop. Windows 7 will almost certainly be the final time that Windows get installed on one of my PCs. With Steam coming out on Linux and shockingly even Apple having a more coherent idea about system security, I don't see a lot of reason to deal with Windows' legacy bullcrap anymore.

recoiledsnake 14y ago
> So basically Windows is creating a two tier system where blessed developers can get access to key system functionality where others are left to the "legacy" desktop It's actually kind of the other way around, desktop apps can mess around with much more on the system than Metro apps can, except for some new APIs. > shockingly even Apple having a more coherent idea about system security How so? What has system security to do with this? If anything, malware authors will have trouble running their malware on Windows RT tablets and in Metro.
- k-mcgrady 14y ago
  >> "It's actually kind of the other way around, desktop apps can mess around with much more on the system than Metro apps can, except for some new APIs." This may be true but the majority of Windows 8 users are probably going to want to use the new Metro interface. I've only being using the OS for a month and it already annoys me to have to switch to the old desktop interface. Preventing apps not distributed through the store access the new interface isn't right. Customers will want it and developers will have little choice. Either piss off customers or give Microsoft a cut of your sales and distribute through them.

nvrmor 14y ago

This is primarily why I hope win8 fails

nohorse 14y ago

there will be homebrew alternatives for distribution. It won't be that locked down. Any dev can side-load today, so I'm sure with a little ingenuity XDA or another community will have a convenient wrapper for the makeappx utility that comes with studio. Go get free tools and give it a shot.