6 ms·

Slackware 14.0 released

60 points by onosendai 14y ago

systems 14y ago
i wish i am brave enough to use slackware, the idea of a rudimentary package manager seems plausible with ubuntu, there is too much majic, i dont run a server, but for example i dont think anyone should install Postgresql sql on running production server by running sudo apt-get install postgresql slackware i believe would force more discipline, i wonder how reasonably large companies run/admin their servers (do they apt-get everything) that would definitely be a nice book to read, someone should write it
- jiggy2011 14y ago
  What's wrong with apt-getting things? It seems the most sensible way to install software, since it will automatically be upgraded with everything else.
  - quesera 14y ago
    One-line installers are fine. Automatic upgrades are not. To use the GP's example of Postgres: I care a whole lot more about my data than anyone at Canonical does. It would be a firing offense to trust that Canonical handles a database software and data upgrade correctly.
    - jiggy2011 14y ago
      apt is pretty configurable though. For example I get an automatic email every day notifying me of package upgrades that are available. Only security patches are installed automatically (you can even specify individual packages to be excluded altogether). I've mainly used mysql and never lost data due to an upgrade (we backup before an upgrade anyway), YMMV of course.
    - ErrantX 14y ago
      Sure; which is why you have an update process - the includes checking for potential issues, and involves several avenues of upgrade (apt, direct, etc.). With proper due diligence on our part I trust the package maintainers to make less mistakes than if I have to do it all by hand :)
    - dsr_ 14y ago
      Which is why Debian doesn't do upgrades-for-the-sake-of-upgrades in Stable. Anything you get there is a security fix, and the notes will tell you if there's an unavoidable functionality or config change. It's also why you can easily set up your own repo in two stages: one that updates from upstream automatically, so you can test changes, and one that never updates except when you specifically update a package: that's the one that your production runs on.
    - bratsche 14y ago
      > One-line installers are fine. Automatic upgrades are not Are you talking about minor-version upgrades, security patches, etc? Or any kind of upgrade? I think there's a big difference. In the case of minor-version upgrades or security patches, what exactly is apt-get taking away from you?
- jvdb 14y ago
  It's grokkable magic :) The Debian package format has nice functionality for deploying software such as the seed database, the script hooks and dependency checking via apt. Keep in mind it's also possible to run your own apt repositories and have your machines source from those, allowing you to define what specific software runs on your farm, down to the smallest detail. All in all apt can give you a very flexible setup :)
- pwg 14y ago
  > i wish i am brave enough to use slackware, The only thing holding you back is your own fear. If you don't want to commit a full machine, try it out in a VirtualBox instance.
- popee 14y ago
  Slackware comes with slackpkg which is (in terms) similar to apt-get, but for non standard apps you need slackbuilds or compile code manually. Btw using Slackware on one server in production and i must admit that small specific systems are perfect match for Slackware (VoIP, routers, ...). And ofc non-production systems (laptops, testing and development environments, etc).
pervycreeper 14y ago
Honest question: what is the advantage of using Slackware in 2012?
- thisisstupid 14y ago
  You can tell people you use Slackware in 2012.
- alberich 14y ago
  This question is subjective. Slackware is cool if you like to know how things work. It doesn't hide a lot of things that other distros automate for you. So, in a sense, it has the advantage of keeping it simple and, thus, being a better platform for learning how Linux works. It also offers an environment that resembles more a BSD system. So, if you like those systems, but cannot run those, maybe it is a better alternative than, say, Ubunto or Redhat (from a user perspective of course). update: typo
- ushi 14y ago
  KISS. IMO. KISS leads to a lightweight and fast system and moves much responsibility back to the user, which means that the user has to learn how the system works. I wouldn't be, were i am, without using stuff like Arch and FreeBSD. Know your system, especially in 2012.
  - dfc 14y ago
    KISS, "know your system."
- wakeup 14y ago
  Well in my experience it's the best linux distribution. It's more stable, simple, secure, easy to use (yes rtfm) and performant distribution around.
- onosendai 14y ago
  I was trying my hardest not to comment, but this is a pertinent question, maybe even THE question when discussing Slackware. It's true that it might seem like an anachronistic distribution in 2012. It was actually the first distro I ever used back in the day when I started running Linux full time and increasingly had to interact with it professionally, and while I've long since moved on to other distros for a myriad of reasons, I wouldn't trade the years I spent running Slack for anything in the world,for a very simple reason, and that is that the old adage is absolutely true: when you run Distro X, you learn Distro X. When you run Slackware you learn Linux. The whole distro, from the package manager to the init scripts is built around the KISS principle. Take the init scripts for example, they're nowhere near as powerful as, say, Upstart, but they're orders of magnitude easier to troubleshoot, and if you take the time to read through them (and yes, they're actually readable and very well commented) you gain a great working knowledge of how Linux actually boots and gets everything up and running. The same philosophy applies to every other corner of the distro. Want to learn how to compile stuff on Linux? Take a look at a Slackbuild script, everything is in there. Want to know exactly what goes on during a distro upgrade, like what packages have precendence and so on? Read UPGRADE.TXT (http://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware-current/UPGRADE.TXT http://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware-current/UPG...). I can only dream that even a small percentage of so-called enterprise software I've come across had release notes and upgrade guides this clear and well written. Another great thing is that they maintain a policy of minimal interference with upstream code. If you come across a bug, you can be fairly sure it's from upstream and not Slackware, instead of having to examine the gazillion patches other distros like Debian and its derivatives introduce into the package. I could continue to wax poetic about it, but I think I've given you an idea. It's not an exaggeration to say that I probably wouldn't be working in IT today if I hadn't come across Slackware in the before time. It's fun, and if nothing else it's a great learning experience.
Nux 14y ago
Go Slackware!
protolif 14y ago
It looks like we 404'd the page.
japaget 14y ago
Slackware.com is currently overloaded. For more info, try Distrowatch: http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=slackware http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=slackware http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=07475 http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=07475
- protolif 14y ago
  Obviously, this is because PHP doesn't scale.
  - elorant 14y ago
    I don't know if you've ever heard about a site called Facebook.
    - pjmlp 14y ago
      Which translates PHP to C++ code via HipHop compiler.
      - WayneDB 14y ago
        So, I guess they found a way to scale PHP then, didn't they? <Insert obligatory comment about how all code is translated to something else before execution>
mark_l_watson 14y ago
Pardon a trip down memory lane: Slackware was was my first distro. I spent several days (including a weekend) downloading the minimal bits to run over a 2400baud modem (in 1993?). My wife and kids almost killed me for hogging the telephone :-)
spitfire 14y ago
I just looked. Slackware still ships with UUCP. Quaint. I wonder who's still using that in some deep dark corner of their infrastructure.

60 points by onosendai 14y ago

i wish i am brave enough to use slackware, the idea of a rudimentary package manager seems plausible with ubuntu, there is too much majic, i dont run a server, but for example i dont think anyone should install Postgresql sql on running production server by running sudo apt-get install postgresql slackware i believe would force more discipline, i wonder how reasonably large companies run/admin their servers (do they apt-get everything) that would definitely be a nice book to read, someone should write it

jiggy2011 14y ago
What's wrong with apt-getting things? It seems the most sensible way to install software, since it will automatically be upgraded with everything else.
- quesera 14y ago
  One-line installers are fine. Automatic upgrades are not. To use the GP's example of Postgres: I care a whole lot more about my data than anyone at Canonical does. It would be a firing offense to trust that Canonical handles a database software and data upgrade correctly.
  - jiggy2011 14y ago
    apt is pretty configurable though. For example I get an automatic email every day notifying me of package upgrades that are available. Only security patches are installed automatically (you can even specify individual packages to be excluded altogether). I've mainly used mysql and never lost data due to an upgrade (we backup before an upgrade anyway), YMMV of course.
  - ErrantX 14y ago
    Sure; which is why you have an update process - the includes checking for potential issues, and involves several avenues of upgrade (apt, direct, etc.). With proper due diligence on our part I trust the package maintainers to make less mistakes than if I have to do it all by hand :)
  - dsr_ 14y ago
    Which is why Debian doesn't do upgrades-for-the-sake-of-upgrades in Stable. Anything you get there is a security fix, and the notes will tell you if there's an unavoidable functionality or config change. It's also why you can easily set up your own repo in two stages: one that updates from upstream automatically, so you can test changes, and one that never updates except when you specifically update a package: that's the one that your production runs on.
  - bratsche 14y ago
    > One-line installers are fine. Automatic upgrades are not Are you talking about minor-version upgrades, security patches, etc? Or any kind of upgrade? I think there's a big difference. In the case of minor-version upgrades or security patches, what exactly is apt-get taking away from you?
jvdb 14y ago
It's grokkable magic :) The Debian package format has nice functionality for deploying software such as the seed database, the script hooks and dependency checking via apt. Keep in mind it's also possible to run your own apt repositories and have your machines source from those, allowing you to define what specific software runs on your farm, down to the smallest detail. All in all apt can give you a very flexible setup :)
pwg 14y ago
> i wish i am brave enough to use slackware, The only thing holding you back is your own fear. If you don't want to commit a full machine, try it out in a VirtualBox instance.
popee 14y ago
Slackware comes with slackpkg which is (in terms) similar to apt-get, but for non standard apps you need slackbuilds or compile code manually. Btw using Slackware on one server in production and i must admit that small specific systems are perfect match for Slackware (VoIP, routers, ...). And ofc non-production systems (laptops, testing and development environments, etc).

pervycreeper 14y ago

Honest question: what is the advantage of using Slackware in 2012?

thisisstupid 14y ago
You can tell people you use Slackware in 2012.
alberich 14y ago
This question is subjective. Slackware is cool if you like to know how things work. It doesn't hide a lot of things that other distros automate for you. So, in a sense, it has the advantage of keeping it simple and, thus, being a better platform for learning how Linux works. It also offers an environment that resembles more a BSD system. So, if you like those systems, but cannot run those, maybe it is a better alternative than, say, Ubunto or Redhat (from a user perspective of course). update: typo
ushi 14y ago
KISS. IMO. KISS leads to a lightweight and fast system and moves much responsibility back to the user, which means that the user has to learn how the system works. I wouldn't be, were i am, without using stuff like Arch and FreeBSD. Know your system, especially in 2012.
- dfc 14y ago
  KISS, "know your system."
wakeup 14y ago
Well in my experience it's the best linux distribution. It's more stable, simple, secure, easy to use (yes rtfm) and performant distribution around.
onosendai 14y ago
I was trying my hardest not to comment, but this is a pertinent question, maybe even THE question when discussing Slackware. It's true that it might seem like an anachronistic distribution in 2012. It was actually the first distro I ever used back in the day when I started running Linux full time and increasingly had to interact with it professionally, and while I've long since moved on to other distros for a myriad of reasons, I wouldn't trade the years I spent running Slack for anything in the world,for a very simple reason, and that is that the old adage is absolutely true: when you run Distro X, you learn Distro X. When you run Slackware you learn Linux. The whole distro, from the package manager to the init scripts is built around the KISS principle. Take the init scripts for example, they're nowhere near as powerful as, say, Upstart, but they're orders of magnitude easier to troubleshoot, and if you take the time to read through them (and yes, they're actually readable and very well commented) you gain a great working knowledge of how Linux actually boots and gets everything up and running. The same philosophy applies to every other corner of the distro. Want to learn how to compile stuff on Linux? Take a look at a Slackbuild script, everything is in there. Want to know exactly what goes on during a distro upgrade, like what packages have precendence and so on? Read UPGRADE.TXT (http://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware-current/UPGRADE.TXT http://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware-current/UPG...). I can only dream that even a small percentage of so-called enterprise software I've come across had release notes and upgrade guides this clear and well written. Another great thing is that they maintain a policy of minimal interference with upstream code. If you come across a bug, you can be fairly sure it's from upstream and not Slackware, instead of having to examine the gazillion patches other distros like Debian and its derivatives introduce into the package. I could continue to wax poetic about it, but I think I've given you an idea. It's not an exaggeration to say that I probably wouldn't be working in IT today if I hadn't come across Slackware in the before time. It's fun, and if nothing else it's a great learning experience.

Nux 14y ago

Go Slackware!

protolif 14y ago

It looks like we 404'd the page.

japaget 14y ago

Slackware.com is currently overloaded. For more info, try Distrowatch: http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=slackware http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=slackware http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=07475 http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=07475

protolif 14y ago
Obviously, this is because PHP doesn't scale.
- elorant 14y ago
  I don't know if you've ever heard about a site called Facebook.
  - pjmlp 14y ago
    Which translates PHP to C++ code via HipHop compiler.
    - WayneDB 14y ago
      So, I guess they found a way to scale PHP then, didn't they? <Insert obligatory comment about how all code is translated to something else before execution>

mark_l_watson 14y ago

Pardon a trip down memory lane: Slackware was was my first distro. I spent several days (including a weekend) downloading the minimal bits to run over a 2400baud modem (in 1993?). My wife and kids almost killed me for hogging the telephone :-)

spitfire 14y ago

I just looked. Slackware still ships with UUCP. Quaint. I wonder who's still using that in some deep dark corner of their infrastructure.