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I donate approximately 47.5% of everything I earn to the French government, is that not enough? (And yes, taxes are a voluntary donation in my case. I could mov

I donate approximately 47.5% of everything I earn to the French government, is that not enough? (And yes, taxes are a voluntary donation in my case. I could move less than a mile across the border to Monaco and incorporate elsewhere if I wanted to pay ~0%) Of course, when I spend 10000 euros in the Loro Piana boutique or anywhere really, 20% of that goes to the government too. Could I afford give more? Sure! To whom? How much? Figuring that out seems like another full time job, and the track record of the effective altruism folks doesn’t seem all that great.

robocat 11mo ago
Everybody seems to have an opinion on what someone more wealthy than they are should spend their money on. Unfortunately we don't get to look at what the commenter earns or spend... A normal car weekly payment in the US is ridiculously wasteful. If you live in the US its almost a given that you are ridiculously wealthy in comparison to many in the world. A normal overseas trip is ridiculously wasteful. It's hard to consider what an average person in the world would think is wasteful, because with our common developed country expenses we don't feel like millionaires. We couldn't even ask a person with an average world income to comment, since do they even have the free time to waste? (edits)
- ok_dad 11mo ago
  Whataboutism isn’t going to solve the problem of inequality. Compare me to many others and you can say the same things as I said to GP, however there’s a clear difference that isn’t very subtle between me buying a compact car and GP buying a few pairs of those pants for the same cost. There’s this argument that people make that goes something like, “the wealthy give their fair share why sour they pay more than a lot income person and get called out for not giving more?” I don’t believe that’s their fair share, is why I ask them to give way more. Do you think a person who starts 100 businesses is working harder than a single mom with a few kids? Why did they deserve the lions share of the profits over their employees? These are some of the questions I have they could be relevant. Like I said, I don’t want to bore anyone, it’s not like the wealthy have ever been in touch with the common man, for millennia. I’m certainly not going to convince anyone, I’m no good at arguing and my arguments tend to be rough and full of holes, but at least I’m not a millionaire claiming I couldn’t or shouldn’t do more because I’m a special hard worker who deserves every penny.
  - basisword 11mo ago
    Do something about it then. Start by learning to make arguments that aren't so poor you yourself think they're rough and full of holes. Get involved in politics, activism, or campaigning. Vote. Convince others to vote in the same manner you do.
  - walletdrainer 11mo ago
    I’m definitely not working particularly hard, but for what it’s worth my work has saved and will continue to save vast amounts of time for ordinary people. I’m not sure that how hard a person works is the right metric to use. > it’s not like the wealthy have ever been in touch with the common man, for millennia A few years ago I used to live in hostels, sometimes hoping that my (then few) websites would get one or two payments to cover my expenses for the next day so I wouldn’t have to go without food. I’d like to think that I’m not suddenly particularly out of touch.
    - frmersdog 11mo ago
      >my work has saved and will continue to save vast amounts of time for ordinary people. I have my doubts. >A few years ago I used to live in hostels, sometimes hoping that my (then few) websites would get one or two payments to cover my expenses for the next day so I wouldn’t have to go without food. I’d like to think that I’m not suddenly particularly out of touch. Consider that living in hostels and going hungry while maintaining multiple web services is maybe outside of the common man's experience. The priorities of someone stuck in the former situation, and the resources generally available to someone in the latter, usually don't overlap. Grocery shopping in Monaco and calling your taxes "donations" doesn't help matters. I say this as someone who is, by many measures, out-of-touch himself: weird know weird. A measure of self-consciousness is healthy. Finally, for efficiency's sake: >Hard to reconcile it being super cool to build an unicorn (a cute term we’ve come up with to describe billion dollar startups which have made their founders tremendously wealthy), but somewhat disgusting to actually have or spend that money. You probably misunderstand my perspective on the matter. >Could I afford give more? Sure! To whom? How much? Oh, the possibilities are endless (even if the ability to vet is not; so, don't). Talk to people, find out their pain points, make their day. OR Your employees (or the people who automation has saved from being your employee). OR Invest in that neighborhood people tell you not to go to. Just starter suggestions. Note that they're not merely aimed at making you feel good for being a good little philanthropist; in the long run, they make it safer to run your mouth off however you like.
derektank 11mo ago
>the track record of the effective altruism folks doesn’t seem all that great. I've been donating 5-10% of my income to GiveWell[1] and their top charities like GiveDirectly[2] and the Against Malaria Foundation[3] for nearly a decade at this point and I think their track record has been fantastic. Effect altruism only gets shady when longtermists get involved and start speculating on the moral worth of lives in some distant future. If you focus on human beings alive today, effective altruists (and development economists) have done a great job identifying how to make your charitable donations go the farthest in reducing suffering. [1] https://www.givewell.org/ https://www.givewell.org/ [2] https://www.givedirectly.org/ https://www.givedirectly.org/ [3] https://www.againstmalaria.com/ https://www.againstmalaria.com/
astrange 11mo ago
> I donate approximately 47.5% of everything I earn to the French government, is that not enough? It's better to think of pretax money as just not existing. The effect of /everyone/ paying taxes is different from the effect of only you paying taxes, since your buying power is somewhat determined by how much you have relative to everyone else.
- walletdrainer 11mo ago
  Well not really, I do my grocery shopping a few minutes away in Monaco where nobody pays taxes. I could move less than a kilometre and save loads of money, despite the outrageous real estate costs. I just kind of like where I am now so don’t care enough to do that, and at least try to assume that the government does a relatively good job of directing my donation to good causes.
ok_dad 11mo ago
A good start might be taking 9500 euros a next time you need pants and donate to a local food bank, then buy 500 euro pants instead! Maybe you could even retire and open a food bank or a childcare facility locally, which might not be possible for you but who knows. If I were wealthy i would open a childcare facility that was free for anyone who lives in my town for emergency care 24/7.

robocat 11mo ago

Everybody seems to have an opinion on what someone more wealthy than they are should spend their money on. Unfortunately we don't get to look at what the commenter earns or spend... A normal car weekly payment in the US is ridiculously wasteful. If you live in the US its almost a given that you are ridiculously wealthy in comparison to many in the world. A normal overseas trip is ridiculously wasteful. It's hard to consider what an average person in the world would think is wasteful, because with our common developed country expenses we don't feel like millionaires. We couldn't even ask a person with an average world income to comment, since do they even have the free time to waste? (edits)

ok_dad 11mo ago
Whataboutism isn’t going to solve the problem of inequality. Compare me to many others and you can say the same things as I said to GP, however there’s a clear difference that isn’t very subtle between me buying a compact car and GP buying a few pairs of those pants for the same cost. There’s this argument that people make that goes something like, “the wealthy give their fair share why sour they pay more than a lot income person and get called out for not giving more?” I don’t believe that’s their fair share, is why I ask them to give way more. Do you think a person who starts 100 businesses is working harder than a single mom with a few kids? Why did they deserve the lions share of the profits over their employees? These are some of the questions I have they could be relevant. Like I said, I don’t want to bore anyone, it’s not like the wealthy have ever been in touch with the common man, for millennia. I’m certainly not going to convince anyone, I’m no good at arguing and my arguments tend to be rough and full of holes, but at least I’m not a millionaire claiming I couldn’t or shouldn’t do more because I’m a special hard worker who deserves every penny.
- basisword 11mo ago
  Do something about it then. Start by learning to make arguments that aren't so poor you yourself think they're rough and full of holes. Get involved in politics, activism, or campaigning. Vote. Convince others to vote in the same manner you do.
- walletdrainer 11mo ago
  I’m definitely not working particularly hard, but for what it’s worth my work has saved and will continue to save vast amounts of time for ordinary people. I’m not sure that how hard a person works is the right metric to use. > it’s not like the wealthy have ever been in touch with the common man, for millennia A few years ago I used to live in hostels, sometimes hoping that my (then few) websites would get one or two payments to cover my expenses for the next day so I wouldn’t have to go without food. I’d like to think that I’m not suddenly particularly out of touch.
  - frmersdog 11mo ago
    >my work has saved and will continue to save vast amounts of time for ordinary people. I have my doubts. >A few years ago I used to live in hostels, sometimes hoping that my (then few) websites would get one or two payments to cover my expenses for the next day so I wouldn’t have to go without food. I’d like to think that I’m not suddenly particularly out of touch. Consider that living in hostels and going hungry while maintaining multiple web services is maybe outside of the common man's experience. The priorities of someone stuck in the former situation, and the resources generally available to someone in the latter, usually don't overlap. Grocery shopping in Monaco and calling your taxes "donations" doesn't help matters. I say this as someone who is, by many measures, out-of-touch himself: weird know weird. A measure of self-consciousness is healthy. Finally, for efficiency's sake: >Hard to reconcile it being super cool to build an unicorn (a cute term we’ve come up with to describe billion dollar startups which have made their founders tremendously wealthy), but somewhat disgusting to actually have or spend that money. You probably misunderstand my perspective on the matter. >Could I afford give more? Sure! To whom? How much? Oh, the possibilities are endless (even if the ability to vet is not; so, don't). Talk to people, find out their pain points, make their day. OR Your employees (or the people who automation has saved from being your employee). OR Invest in that neighborhood people tell you not to go to. Just starter suggestions. Note that they're not merely aimed at making you feel good for being a good little philanthropist; in the long run, they make it safer to run your mouth off however you like.

derektank 11mo ago

>the track record of the effective altruism folks doesn’t seem all that great. I've been donating 5-10% of my income to GiveWell[1] and their top charities like GiveDirectly[2] and the Against Malaria Foundation[3] for nearly a decade at this point and I think their track record has been fantastic. Effect altruism only gets shady when longtermists get involved and start speculating on the moral worth of lives in some distant future. If you focus on human beings alive today, effective altruists (and development economists) have done a great job identifying how to make your charitable donations go the farthest in reducing suffering. [1] https://www.givewell.org/ https://www.givewell.org/ [2] https://www.givedirectly.org/ https://www.givedirectly.org/ [3] https://www.againstmalaria.com/ https://www.againstmalaria.com/

astrange 11mo ago

> I donate approximately 47.5% of everything I earn to the French government, is that not enough? It's better to think of pretax money as just not existing. The effect of /everyone/ paying taxes is different from the effect of only you paying taxes, since your buying power is somewhat determined by how much you have relative to everyone else.

walletdrainer 11mo ago
Well not really, I do my grocery shopping a few minutes away in Monaco where nobody pays taxes. I could move less than a kilometre and save loads of money, despite the outrageous real estate costs. I just kind of like where I am now so don’t care enough to do that, and at least try to assume that the government does a relatively good job of directing my donation to good causes.

ok_dad 11mo ago

A good start might be taking 9500 euros a next time you need pants and donate to a local food bank, then buy 500 euro pants instead! Maybe you could even retire and open a food bank or a childcare facility locally, which might not be possible for you but who knows. If I were wealthy i would open a childcare facility that was free for anyone who lives in my town for emergency care 24/7.