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These religious fundamentalist groups have always existed, yet Canada and other places eliminated measles. I wonder what changed? Oh yeah, the spread of misin

These religious fundamentalist groups have always existed, yet Canada and other places eliminated measles. I wonder what changed? Oh yeah, the spread of misinformation on the internet.

truth13told 11mo ago
[dead]
delaminator 11mo ago
[flagged]
- pseudo0 11mo ago
  Mass immigration from countries where measles is endemic? India has over 10,000 cases per year and makes up the plurality of Canada's immigration intake. Canada has a very high two-shot vaccination rate, but there are pockets like the Mennonite communities that are vulnerable.
  - geoka9 11mo ago
    Up-to-date vaccination list is a requirement for immigrant visa in Canada.
    - pseudo0 11mo ago
      Only for stays greater than six months. So an unvaccinated person can fly in from wherever and stay for 180 days legally, or just overstay their visa. That's plenty of time to spread measles.
    - delaminator 11mo ago
      https://www.cnbctv18.com/india/healthcare/as-the-number-of-fake-doctors-rises-heres-how-to-check-if-yours-is-authentic-19603120.htm https://www.cnbctv18.com/india/healthcare/as-the-number-of-f... 57% of drs are fake, do you think 100% the certificates are genuine?
  - eldaisfish 11mo ago
    this is a racist dog whistle. Stop with the "mass immigration" BS. India, contrary to what the racists believe, has a long and successful vaccination program. A country of 1.5 billion people has around a 70% MMR vaccination rate among infants. Canada's in the 80% range and dropping.
    - pseudo0 11mo ago
      Canada had eliminated measles, it was reintroduced by travel from a country where measles was endemic. This is not rocket science. High-volume international travel from countries where measles is endemic, like India, poses a public health risk to countries that have eliminated the disease. The same goes for tuberculosis, hepatitis, etc.
    - delaminator 11mo ago
      And half the doctors are fake https://www.cnbctv18.com/india/healthcare/as-the-number-of-fake-doctors-rises-heres-how-to-check-if-yours-is-authentic-19603120.htm https://www.cnbctv18.com/india/healthcare/as-the-number-of-f...
renewiltord 11mo ago
What changed was that they were free-riders on the rest of the population and one day the rest of the population no longer met the threshold. One could say it is because of the spread of misinformation and that might be the proximate cause. But if a drug addict periodically overdoses and needs naloxone, and one day a supply chain issue makes it hard to access and he dies, did the supply chain kill him or his drug addiction? Perhaps monocausal explanations are insufficient.
koakuma-chan 11mo ago
[flagged]
ch4s3 11mo ago
It's a little hard to believe that people who famously don't use computers were infected by an "misinformation", a rather loathsome neologism. There was famously a really serious outbreak in the NYC Orthodox community from 1989 to about 1991. Unvaccinated communities are a sort of immunological tinder box, and you never know when a stray spark might land. This is the result of a failure of public health to reach out to these religious communities in effective ways for decades.
- daveguy 11mo ago
  I think the point was, it's not limited to those isolated groups anymore.
  - ch4s3 11mo ago
    It mostly is limited to people in those groups or people in contact with them. [1] The big hot spot in Alberta is the Mennonite community. [1] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-mexican-mennonite-measles-vaccine-hesitancy-outreach-1.7601715#:~:text=Vaccine%20coverage%20gaps%20Southern%20Alberta%20has%20945,cent%20in%20the%20City%20of%20Medicine%20Hat. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-mexican-menno...
- Retric 11mo ago
  That stray spark’s survival is heavily influenced by the herd immunity of the rest of the population. Put another way if the overall population sees an average of 0.5 or 0.95 infections per case there’s zero chance of a huge outbreak. But odds of a case making it to a vulnerable population is wildly higher in the second case.
- joecool1029 11mo ago
  > There was famously a really serious outbreak in the NYC Orthodox community from 1989 to about 1991. They never really stopped, it's been every few years since then: https://forward.com/news/417390/measles-is-hitting-ultra-orthodox-communities-why-arent-they-vaccinating/ https://forward.com/news/417390/measles-is-hitting-ultra-ort... The Amish are/were undervaccinated but it wasn't due to religious objections. It just seems uncommon in communities to see a dr, unless it's needed: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/ohio-amish-reconsider-vaccines-amid-largest-measles-outbreak-u-s-history https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/ohio-amish-reconsider-va... It's also hard to get an official count (I've seen estimates below 20% vs almost 90% for non-amish communities in same state, but then you read stuff like this which suggests even the old older is above 80% https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article-abstract/128/1/79/30323/Underimmunization-in-Ohio-s-Amish-Parental-Fears?redirectedFrom=fulltext https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article-abstract/128... ) since these communities are grandfathered into their own healthcare systems and often exempt from the normal federal welfare systems: https://www.ssa.gov/faqs/en/questions/KA-02411.html https://www.ssa.gov/faqs/en/questions/KA-02411.html I'm not sure about Mennonites. One of their communities writes about it and seems to suggest only 1 of the 40 or so communities is hardliners against vaccination. But I also note this is written in a really neutral way (could be to placate government, dunno): https://www.mennoniteusa.org/measles/ https://www.mennoniteusa.org/measles/
pclmulqdq 11mo ago
What changed was less funding to the agencies that surveil for disease spread so they can intercept outbreaks. The US CDC funded these programs all over the world.
- buellerbueller 11mo ago
  And still did until this year. American vaccine hesitancy has grown since long before even covid. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/data-investigation-childhood-vaccination-rates-are-backsliding-us-rcna228876 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/data-investigatio... Just stop sanewashing this.

These religious fundamentalist groups have always existed, yet Canada and other places eliminated measles. I wonder what changed? Oh yeah, the spread of misinformation on the internet.

truth13told 11mo ago

[dead]

delaminator 11mo ago

[flagged]

pseudo0 11mo ago
Mass immigration from countries where measles is endemic? India has over 10,000 cases per year and makes up the plurality of Canada's immigration intake. Canada has a very high two-shot vaccination rate, but there are pockets like the Mennonite communities that are vulnerable.
- geoka9 11mo ago
  Up-to-date vaccination list is a requirement for immigrant visa in Canada.
  - pseudo0 11mo ago
    Only for stays greater than six months. So an unvaccinated person can fly in from wherever and stay for 180 days legally, or just overstay their visa. That's plenty of time to spread measles.
  - delaminator 11mo ago
    https://www.cnbctv18.com/india/healthcare/as-the-number-of-fake-doctors-rises-heres-how-to-check-if-yours-is-authentic-19603120.htm https://www.cnbctv18.com/india/healthcare/as-the-number-of-f... 57% of drs are fake, do you think 100% the certificates are genuine?
- eldaisfish 11mo ago
  this is a racist dog whistle. Stop with the "mass immigration" BS. India, contrary to what the racists believe, has a long and successful vaccination program. A country of 1.5 billion people has around a 70% MMR vaccination rate among infants. Canada's in the 80% range and dropping.
  - pseudo0 11mo ago
    Canada had eliminated measles, it was reintroduced by travel from a country where measles was endemic. This is not rocket science. High-volume international travel from countries where measles is endemic, like India, poses a public health risk to countries that have eliminated the disease. The same goes for tuberculosis, hepatitis, etc.
  - delaminator 11mo ago
    And half the doctors are fake https://www.cnbctv18.com/india/healthcare/as-the-number-of-fake-doctors-rises-heres-how-to-check-if-yours-is-authentic-19603120.htm https://www.cnbctv18.com/india/healthcare/as-the-number-of-f...

renewiltord 11mo ago

What changed was that they were free-riders on the rest of the population and one day the rest of the population no longer met the threshold. One could say it is because of the spread of misinformation and that might be the proximate cause. But if a drug addict periodically overdoses and needs naloxone, and one day a supply chain issue makes it hard to access and he dies, did the supply chain kill him or his drug addiction? Perhaps monocausal explanations are insufficient.

koakuma-chan 11mo ago

[flagged]

ch4s3 11mo ago

It's a little hard to believe that people who famously don't use computers were infected by an "misinformation", a rather loathsome neologism. There was famously a really serious outbreak in the NYC Orthodox community from 1989 to about 1991. Unvaccinated communities are a sort of immunological tinder box, and you never know when a stray spark might land. This is the result of a failure of public health to reach out to these religious communities in effective ways for decades.

daveguy 11mo ago
I think the point was, it's not limited to those isolated groups anymore.
- ch4s3 11mo ago
  It mostly is limited to people in those groups or people in contact with them. [1] The big hot spot in Alberta is the Mennonite community. [1] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-mexican-mennonite-measles-vaccine-hesitancy-outreach-1.7601715#:~:text=Vaccine%20coverage%20gaps%20Southern%20Alberta%20has%20945,cent%20in%20the%20City%20of%20Medicine%20Hat. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-mexican-menno...
Retric 11mo ago
That stray spark’s survival is heavily influenced by the herd immunity of the rest of the population. Put another way if the overall population sees an average of 0.5 or 0.95 infections per case there’s zero chance of a huge outbreak. But odds of a case making it to a vulnerable population is wildly higher in the second case.
joecool1029 11mo ago
> There was famously a really serious outbreak in the NYC Orthodox community from 1989 to about 1991. They never really stopped, it's been every few years since then: https://forward.com/news/417390/measles-is-hitting-ultra-orthodox-communities-why-arent-they-vaccinating/ https://forward.com/news/417390/measles-is-hitting-ultra-ort... The Amish are/were undervaccinated but it wasn't due to religious objections. It just seems uncommon in communities to see a dr, unless it's needed: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/ohio-amish-reconsider-vaccines-amid-largest-measles-outbreak-u-s-history https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/ohio-amish-reconsider-va... It's also hard to get an official count (I've seen estimates below 20% vs almost 90% for non-amish communities in same state, but then you read stuff like this which suggests even the old older is above 80% https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article-abstract/128/1/79/30323/Underimmunization-in-Ohio-s-Amish-Parental-Fears?redirectedFrom=fulltext https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article-abstract/128... ) since these communities are grandfathered into their own healthcare systems and often exempt from the normal federal welfare systems: https://www.ssa.gov/faqs/en/questions/KA-02411.html https://www.ssa.gov/faqs/en/questions/KA-02411.html I'm not sure about Mennonites. One of their communities writes about it and seems to suggest only 1 of the 40 or so communities is hardliners against vaccination. But I also note this is written in a really neutral way (could be to placate government, dunno): https://www.mennoniteusa.org/measles/ https://www.mennoniteusa.org/measles/

pclmulqdq 11mo ago

What changed was less funding to the agencies that surveil for disease spread so they can intercept outbreaks. The US CDC funded these programs all over the world.

buellerbueller 11mo ago
And still did until this year. American vaccine hesitancy has grown since long before even covid. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/data-investigation-childhood-vaccination-rates-are-backsliding-us-rcna228876 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/data-investigatio... Just stop sanewashing this.