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There’s an analog analogue: mixing and mastering audio recordings for the devices of the era. I first heard about this when reading an article or book about Ji

There’s an analog analogue: mixing and mastering audio recordings for the devices of the era. I first heard about this when reading an article or book about Jimi Hendrix making choices based on what the output sounded like on AM radio. Contrast that with the contemporary recordings of The Beatles, in which George Martin was oriented toward what sounded best in the studio and home hi-fi (which was pretty amazing if you could afford decent German and Japanese components). Even today, after digital transfers and remasters and high-end speakers and headphones, Hendrix’s late 60s studio recordings don’t hold a candle anything the Beatles did from Revolver on.

thaumasiotes 1y ago
> There’s an analog analogue: mixing and mastering audio recordings for the devices of the era. In the modern day, this has one extremely noticeable effect: audio releases used to assume that you were going to play your music on a big, expensive stereo system, and they tried to create the illusion of the different members of the band standing in different places. But today you listen to music on headphones, and it's very weird to have, for example, the bassline playing in one ear while the rest of the music plays in your other ear.
- heeton 1y ago
  That's with a naive stereo split. Many would still put the bass on one side, with the binaural processing so it's still heard on the right, but quieter and with a tiny delay.
  - munificent 1y ago
    Hard panning isn't naive. It's just a choice that presumes an audio playback environment. If you're listening in a room with two speakers, having widely panned sounds and limited use of reverb sounds great. The room will mix the two speakers somewhat together and add a sense of space. The result sounds like a couple of instruments playing in a room, which is sort of is. But if you're listening with a tiny speaker directly next to each ear canal, then all of that mixing and creating a sense of space must be baked into the two audio channels themselves. You have to be more judicious with panning to avoid creating an effect that couldn't possibly be heard in a real space and add some more reverb to create a spatial environment.
    - im3w1l 1y ago
      Maybe I'm misunderstanding him but I think he says the music track can have hard panning, and it's the headphone playback system that should do some compensatory processing so that it sounds as if it was played on two speakers in a room. Don't ask me how it works but I know gaming headsets try to emulate a surround setup.
      - rrrrrrrrrrrryan 1y ago
        Yes, these sorts of compensation features have become common on higher end headphones. One example: > The crossfeed feature is great for classic tracks with hard-panned mixes. It takes instruments concentrated on one channel and balances them out, creating a much more natural listening experience — like hearing the track on a full stereo system. https://us.sennheiser-hearing.com/products/hdb-630 https://us.sennheiser-hearing.com/products/hdb-630
- bongodongobob 1y ago
  No, they just didn't put much time into stereo because it was new and most listeners didn't have that format. So they'd hard pan things for the novelty effect. This paradigm was over by the early 70s and they gave stereo mixes a more intentional treatment.
chiph 1y ago
And now we have the Loudness War where the songs are so highly compressed that there is no dynamic range. Because of this, I have to reduce the volume so it isn't painful to listen to. And this makes what should have been a live recording with interesting sound into background noise. Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ If you want a recent-ish album to listen to that has good sound, try Daft Punk's Random Access Memories (which won the Best Engineered Album Grammy award in 2014). Or anything engineered by Alan Parsons (he's in this list many times) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammy_Award_for_Best_Engineered_Album,_Non-Classical https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammy_Award_for_Best_Engineer...
- a4isms 1y ago
  I was obsessed with Tales of Mystery & Imagination, I Robot, and Pyramids in the 70s. I also loved Rush, Yes, ELP, Genesis, and ELO, but while Alan Parsons' albums weren't better in an absolute musical sense, his production values were so obviously in a class of their own I still put Parsons in the same bucket as people like Trevor Horn and Quincy Jones, people who created masterpieces of record album engineering and production.
- tyrust 1y ago
  > now Is this still a problem? Your example video is from nearly twenty years ago, RAM is over a decade old. I think the advent of streaming (and perhaps lessons learned) have made this less of a problem. I can't remember hearing any recent examples (but I also don't listen to a lot of music that might be victim to the practice); the Wikipedia article lacks any examples from the last decade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war Thankfully there have been some remasters that have undone the damage. Three Cheers for Sweet Revenge and Absolution come to mind.
  - entropicdrifter 1y ago
    Certified Audio Engineer here. The Loudness Wars more or less ended over the last decade or so due to music streaming services using loudness normalization (they effectively measure what each recording's true average volume is and adjust them all up or down on an invisible volume knob to have the same average) Because of this it generally makes more sense these days to just make your music have an appropriate dynamic range for the content/intended usage. Some stuff still gets slammed with compression/limiters, but it's mostly club music from what I can tell.
nunez 1y ago
I've noticed this with lots of jazz from the 50s and 60s. Sounds amazing in mono but "lacking" in stereo.
- dboreham 1y ago
  Because it's mono?
- hackerdood 1y ago
  That’s more due to mono being the dominant format at the time so the majority of time and money went to working on the mono mix. The stereo one was often an afterthought until stereo became more widespread and demand for good stereo mixes increased.
petralithic 1y ago
The same with movie sound mixing, where directors like Nolan are infamous for muffling dialogue in home setups because he wants the sound mixed for large, IMAX scale theater setups.
dboreham 1y ago
> decent German and Japanese components Whoa there! Audio components were about the only thing the British still excelled at by that time.
- robotresearcher 1y ago
  British music of the 60s and 70s was pretty great to listen to on that hifi.
- ilamont 1y ago
  I wasn't aware of home hi-fi but British gear for musicians was widespread when I was growing up (Marshall, Vox, etc). I was specifically thinking of the components my father got through the Army PX in the 60s and the hi-fi gear I would see at some friends' houses in the decades that followed ... sometimes tech that never really took hold, such as reel-to-reel audio. Most of it was Japanese, and sometimes German. I still have a pair of his 1967 Sansui speakers in the basement (one with a blown woofer, unfortunately) and a working Yamaha natural sound receiver sitting next to my desk from about a decade later.
  - robotresearcher 1y ago
    Wharfedale (1920s) and Cambridge Audio (1960s) were there, and are still making great home hifi.
sroussey 1y ago
A voice on the radio sounded better with vibrato, so that’s what they did before even recordings were made. Same when violins played. These versions were for radio only and thought of as cheap when done in person. Later this was recorded, and being the only versions recorded, later generations thought that this is how the masters of the time did things, when really they would be booed off stage (so to speak). It’s a bit of family history that passed this info on due to being multiple generations of playing the violin.
- nunez 1y ago
  Interesting!

thaumasiotes 1y ago

> There’s an analog analogue: mixing and mastering audio recordings for the devices of the era. In the modern day, this has one extremely noticeable effect: audio releases used to assume that you were going to play your music on a big, expensive stereo system, and they tried to create the illusion of the different members of the band standing in different places. But today you listen to music on headphones, and it's very weird to have, for example, the bassline playing in one ear while the rest of the music plays in your other ear.

heeton 1y ago
That's with a naive stereo split. Many would still put the bass on one side, with the binaural processing so it's still heard on the right, but quieter and with a tiny delay.
- munificent 1y ago
  Hard panning isn't naive. It's just a choice that presumes an audio playback environment. If you're listening in a room with two speakers, having widely panned sounds and limited use of reverb sounds great. The room will mix the two speakers somewhat together and add a sense of space. The result sounds like a couple of instruments playing in a room, which is sort of is. But if you're listening with a tiny speaker directly next to each ear canal, then all of that mixing and creating a sense of space must be baked into the two audio channels themselves. You have to be more judicious with panning to avoid creating an effect that couldn't possibly be heard in a real space and add some more reverb to create a spatial environment.
  - im3w1l 1y ago
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding him but I think he says the music track can have hard panning, and it's the headphone playback system that should do some compensatory processing so that it sounds as if it was played on two speakers in a room. Don't ask me how it works but I know gaming headsets try to emulate a surround setup.
    - rrrrrrrrrrrryan 1y ago
      Yes, these sorts of compensation features have become common on higher end headphones. One example: > The crossfeed feature is great for classic tracks with hard-panned mixes. It takes instruments concentrated on one channel and balances them out, creating a much more natural listening experience — like hearing the track on a full stereo system. https://us.sennheiser-hearing.com/products/hdb-630 https://us.sennheiser-hearing.com/products/hdb-630
bongodongobob 1y ago
No, they just didn't put much time into stereo because it was new and most listeners didn't have that format. So they'd hard pan things for the novelty effect. This paradigm was over by the early 70s and they gave stereo mixes a more intentional treatment.

chiph 1y ago

And now we have the Loudness War where the songs are so highly compressed that there is no dynamic range. Because of this, I have to reduce the volume so it isn't painful to listen to. And this makes what should have been a live recording with interesting sound into background noise. Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ If you want a recent-ish album to listen to that has good sound, try Daft Punk's Random Access Memories (which won the Best Engineered Album Grammy award in 2014). Or anything engineered by Alan Parsons (he's in this list many times) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammy_Award_for_Best_Engineered_Album,_Non-Classical https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammy_Award_for_Best_Engineer...

a4isms 1y ago
I was obsessed with Tales of Mystery & Imagination, I Robot, and Pyramids in the 70s. I also loved Rush, Yes, ELP, Genesis, and ELO, but while Alan Parsons' albums weren't better in an absolute musical sense, his production values were so obviously in a class of their own I still put Parsons in the same bucket as people like Trevor Horn and Quincy Jones, people who created masterpieces of record album engineering and production.
tyrust 1y ago
> now Is this still a problem? Your example video is from nearly twenty years ago, RAM is over a decade old. I think the advent of streaming (and perhaps lessons learned) have made this less of a problem. I can't remember hearing any recent examples (but I also don't listen to a lot of music that might be victim to the practice); the Wikipedia article lacks any examples from the last decade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war Thankfully there have been some remasters that have undone the damage. Three Cheers for Sweet Revenge and Absolution come to mind.
- entropicdrifter 1y ago
  Certified Audio Engineer here. The Loudness Wars more or less ended over the last decade or so due to music streaming services using loudness normalization (they effectively measure what each recording's true average volume is and adjust them all up or down on an invisible volume knob to have the same average) Because of this it generally makes more sense these days to just make your music have an appropriate dynamic range for the content/intended usage. Some stuff still gets slammed with compression/limiters, but it's mostly club music from what I can tell.

nunez 1y ago

I've noticed this with lots of jazz from the 50s and 60s. Sounds amazing in mono but "lacking" in stereo.

dboreham 1y ago
Because it's mono?
hackerdood 1y ago
That’s more due to mono being the dominant format at the time so the majority of time and money went to working on the mono mix. The stereo one was often an afterthought until stereo became more widespread and demand for good stereo mixes increased.

petralithic 1y ago

The same with movie sound mixing, where directors like Nolan are infamous for muffling dialogue in home setups because he wants the sound mixed for large, IMAX scale theater setups.

dboreham 1y ago

> decent German and Japanese components Whoa there! Audio components were about the only thing the British still excelled at by that time.

robotresearcher 1y ago
British music of the 60s and 70s was pretty great to listen to on that hifi.
ilamont 1y ago
I wasn't aware of home hi-fi but British gear for musicians was widespread when I was growing up (Marshall, Vox, etc). I was specifically thinking of the components my father got through the Army PX in the 60s and the hi-fi gear I would see at some friends' houses in the decades that followed ... sometimes tech that never really took hold, such as reel-to-reel audio. Most of it was Japanese, and sometimes German. I still have a pair of his 1967 Sansui speakers in the basement (one with a blown woofer, unfortunately) and a working Yamaha natural sound receiver sitting next to my desk from about a decade later.
- robotresearcher 1y ago
  Wharfedale (1920s) and Cambridge Audio (1960s) were there, and are still making great home hifi.

sroussey 1y ago

A voice on the radio sounded better with vibrato, so that’s what they did before even recordings were made. Same when violins played. These versions were for radio only and thought of as cheap when done in person. Later this was recorded, and being the only versions recorded, later generations thought that this is how the masters of the time did things, when really they would be booed off stage (so to speak). It’s a bit of family history that passed this info on due to being multiple generations of playing the violin.

nunez 1y ago
Interesting!