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Probably it’s worth mentioning that the repair shops as we know them today didn’t exist in the world of Soviet cars. So everybody was responsible for his car an

by lnsru 11mo ago

Probably it’s worth mentioning that the repair shops as we know them today didn’t exist in the world of Soviet cars. So everybody was responsible for his car and the owners were forced to spent weekends under the car in garage blocks sharing tools, knowledge and beer.

somenameforme 11mo ago
The manuals for the Lada were epic. In a quick search for an original one I came upon this [1] which is an English version one, which is even better than what I was looking for! It describes the entire car's operation and mechanism in extensive detail along with descriptions of how to replace parts, what might go wrong, and more. I'm not sure that 'just send it to the repair shop' was an overall improvement in society in so many ways. In modern times those shops are infamous for exploiting people's ignorance and ripping them off to an absurd degree, and it primarily affects the lower socioeconomic groups within society, since the upper groups tend to cycle through relatively newer cars more regularly, in part to avoid having to deal with long term maintenance issues. [1] - https://archive.org/details/manualzilla-id-6025672/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/manualzilla-id-6025672/mode/2up
- ACCount37 11mo ago
  Repair shops are a necessity. Not everyone can learn even the basics of car maintenance. There are a lot of drivers on the roads today who wouldn't be able to do even something as simple as top up the oil or change the tires. And actual repairs, even on older simpler cars, even with an exhaustive technical manual and modern learning aids like video tutorials or AR overlays? Fat fucking chance. There are ways around that. You can keep the cars simple to repair and also expensive and unavailable, so that only the people with tech know-how and/or willingness to learn it get them. Make cars as tools for professionals and tech enthusiasts, like PCs were in the 80s or construction equipment is now. Or you can make the cars cheap and disposable enough that if one fails, you can just send it to a scrapyard and get a new one. I don't like either of those workarounds, so repair shops are the least bad option.
  - somenameforme 11mo ago
    > Not everyone can learn even the basics of car maintenance. Why do you think? Outside of extremely rare disabilities, I do not understand why you would believe this.
    - ACCount37 11mo ago
      A lot of users have an extreme level of resistance to learning tech. Which applies even to the most simple of instruction-following operations. They aren't clinically retarded. They could learn those things if someone forced them to. But you, as a product developer, can't force them. It's utterly impractical to overcome that resistance for a mass market product. It's easier to make a car that doesn't require oil changes than it is to make every car owner learn to perform oil changes.
      - potato3732842 11mo ago
        >It's easier to make a car that doesn't require oil changes than it is to make every car owner learn to perform oil changes. No, it's not. There's fairly low level physics and chemistry reasons you can't make a car that doesn't need oil changes. Oil changes could be about as difficult as swapping out toner cartridges if they cared to make it that way though. Please keep your Prius out of the left lane.
        ACCount37 11mo ago
        EVs are on the roads right now, and most of them don't require oil changes at all. The oil in sealed in the gearbox, with no combustion to foul it, and is rated for the lifetime of the entire car. And, have you ever seen a user? Like, an actual user, in person? 1 user in 5 is capable of swapping out toner cartridges. Kicking the can to the tech support dept (for oil changes: to the service shops) is how it's done in real life.
        potato3732842 11mo ago
        >EVs are on the roads right now, and most of them don't require oil changes at all. The oil in sealed in the gearbox, with no combustion to foul it, and is rated for the lifetime of the entire car. You're being misleading. Nobody is changing the comparable oils in their ICE car with any serious regularity either. When people talk about oil changes they're talking about motor oil. >And, have you ever seen a user? Like, an actual user, in person? 1 user in 5 is capable of swapping out toner cartridges. 99/10 can probably read the instructions and do it themselves if they care to try. >Kicking the can to the tech support dept (for oil changes: to the service shops) is how it's done in real life. Yes, that's how it's done in the office where you have people who's job it is to do those things. Are you incapable of emptying your trash can because the janitor does it? Even the most useless people living within the highest touch HOAs are changing their own printer ink and cleaning out the garbage collector in their dishwasher and the filter in their HVAC. There's no reason the basic stuff on a car couldn't be on that level of complexity.
- eloisant 11mo ago
  Why can't we have both? Ability to self-service your car but repair shop if you don't have the skills, tools or don't want to do it yourself.
- xattt 11mo ago
  You’re looking at a repair manual, which would be expected to describe operation and function in detail. These are available for all cars if you know who to ask. I recall looking through owner’s manual for a domestic VAZ 2101. It was standard stuff, but certainly didn’t go into detail about knolling your car.
- phatfish 11mo ago
  My dad would always buy a "Hanyes" manual for our second hand cars in the UK, as inevitably there would be something to fix. These were comprehensive 3rd party manuals. I have also gotten them for newer early 2000s cars. Never had to use one for my 06 Vauxhall though. Apart from some standard things that really need a repair shop (replacing the exhaust for example) I've never had an issue or breakdown. The cars I see on the side of the motorway are always new, feels like there was a period before electronics really took over that most cars were pretty bulletproof.

by lnsru 11mo ago

somenameforme 11mo ago

The manuals for the Lada were epic. In a quick search for an original one I came upon this [1] which is an English version one, which is even better than what I was looking for! It describes the entire car's operation and mechanism in extensive detail along with descriptions of how to replace parts, what might go wrong, and more. I'm not sure that 'just send it to the repair shop' was an overall improvement in society in so many ways. In modern times those shops are infamous for exploiting people's ignorance and ripping them off to an absurd degree, and it primarily affects the lower socioeconomic groups within society, since the upper groups tend to cycle through relatively newer cars more regularly, in part to avoid having to deal with long term maintenance issues. [1] - https://archive.org/details/manualzilla-id-6025672/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/manualzilla-id-6025672/mode/2up

ACCount37 11mo ago
Repair shops are a necessity. Not everyone can learn even the basics of car maintenance. There are a lot of drivers on the roads today who wouldn't be able to do even something as simple as top up the oil or change the tires. And actual repairs, even on older simpler cars, even with an exhaustive technical manual and modern learning aids like video tutorials or AR overlays? Fat fucking chance. There are ways around that. You can keep the cars simple to repair and also expensive and unavailable, so that only the people with tech know-how and/or willingness to learn it get them. Make cars as tools for professionals and tech enthusiasts, like PCs were in the 80s or construction equipment is now. Or you can make the cars cheap and disposable enough that if one fails, you can just send it to a scrapyard and get a new one. I don't like either of those workarounds, so repair shops are the least bad option.
- somenameforme 11mo ago
  > Not everyone can learn even the basics of car maintenance. Why do you think? Outside of extremely rare disabilities, I do not understand why you would believe this.
  - ACCount37 11mo ago
    A lot of users have an extreme level of resistance to learning tech. Which applies even to the most simple of instruction-following operations. They aren't clinically retarded. They could learn those things if someone forced them to. But you, as a product developer, can't force them. It's utterly impractical to overcome that resistance for a mass market product. It's easier to make a car that doesn't require oil changes than it is to make every car owner learn to perform oil changes.
    - potato3732842 11mo ago
      >It's easier to make a car that doesn't require oil changes than it is to make every car owner learn to perform oil changes. No, it's not. There's fairly low level physics and chemistry reasons you can't make a car that doesn't need oil changes. Oil changes could be about as difficult as swapping out toner cartridges if they cared to make it that way though. Please keep your Prius out of the left lane.
      - ACCount37 11mo ago
        EVs are on the roads right now, and most of them don't require oil changes at all. The oil in sealed in the gearbox, with no combustion to foul it, and is rated for the lifetime of the entire car. And, have you ever seen a user? Like, an actual user, in person? 1 user in 5 is capable of swapping out toner cartridges. Kicking the can to the tech support dept (for oil changes: to the service shops) is how it's done in real life.
        potato3732842 11mo ago
        >EVs are on the roads right now, and most of them don't require oil changes at all. The oil in sealed in the gearbox, with no combustion to foul it, and is rated for the lifetime of the entire car. You're being misleading. Nobody is changing the comparable oils in their ICE car with any serious regularity either. When people talk about oil changes they're talking about motor oil. >And, have you ever seen a user? Like, an actual user, in person? 1 user in 5 is capable of swapping out toner cartridges. 99/10 can probably read the instructions and do it themselves if they care to try. >Kicking the can to the tech support dept (for oil changes: to the service shops) is how it's done in real life. Yes, that's how it's done in the office where you have people who's job it is to do those things. Are you incapable of emptying your trash can because the janitor does it? Even the most useless people living within the highest touch HOAs are changing their own printer ink and cleaning out the garbage collector in their dishwasher and the filter in their HVAC. There's no reason the basic stuff on a car couldn't be on that level of complexity.
eloisant 11mo ago
Why can't we have both? Ability to self-service your car but repair shop if you don't have the skills, tools or don't want to do it yourself.
xattt 11mo ago
You’re looking at a repair manual, which would be expected to describe operation and function in detail. These are available for all cars if you know who to ask. I recall looking through owner’s manual for a domestic VAZ 2101. It was standard stuff, but certainly didn’t go into detail about knolling your car.
phatfish 11mo ago
My dad would always buy a "Hanyes" manual for our second hand cars in the UK, as inevitably there would be something to fix. These were comprehensive 3rd party manuals. I have also gotten them for newer early 2000s cars. Never had to use one for my 06 Vauxhall though. Apart from some standard things that really need a repair shop (replacing the exhaust for example) I've never had an issue or breakdown. The cars I see on the side of the motorway are always new, feels like there was a period before electronics really took over that most cars were pretty bulletproof.