4 ms·

> I don't want EU to fall behind further in the AI race Unless something changes, that's going to continue :( According to Jensen Huang, "the AI race" will be

by logifail 11mo ago

> I don't want EU to fall behind further in the AI race Unless something changes, that's going to continue :( According to Jensen Huang, "the AI race" will be determined primarily by the price of electricity.[0] Until very recently the EU stated that being carbon neutral by 2050 was of overriding importance[1]. Which is it? [0] https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/artificial-intelligence/china-is-going-to-win-the-ai-race-nvidia-ceo-jensen-huang-decries-the-price-of-electricity-in-the-us-contrasts-it-with-chinas-subsidized-pricing https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/artificial-intell... [1] https://climate.ec.europa.eu/eu-action/climate-strategies-targets/2050-long-term-strategy_en https://climate.ec.europa.eu/eu-action/climate-strategies-ta...

flir 11mo ago
China's target is 2060.
- logifail 11mo ago
  > China's target is 2060 "China plans to keep building coal-fired power plants through 2027 in regions where they are needed to meet peak power demand or stabilise the grid, according to government guidelines" https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/climate-energy/china-keep-building-coal-plants-through-2027-state-planner-says-2025-04-14/ https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/climate-energy/china-...
  - flir 11mo ago
    And yet they used less coal in 2024 than they did in 2023. Maybe it's just an economic downturn. But... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/26/china-breaks-more-records-with-massive-build-up-of-wind-and-solar-power https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/26/china-breaks-m... I just don't buy that carbon neutrality necessarily results in expensive electricity.
- philjohn 11mo ago
  China doesn't have one side of the political spectrum trying to shutter any talk of renewables, they're just installing them at breakneck speed.
  - naIak 11mo ago
    We just need to execute the side of the political spectrum that we don't like. That way society will really get ahead.
bootsmann 11mo ago
Nuclear energy is carbon neutral according to the EU definition
- Arch-TK 11mo ago
  Is it not? What is it instead? Carbon negative?
  - spwa4 11mo ago
    Greenpeace was founded to oppose nuclear energy, because it would lead to nuclear war (that was their position at least), which illustrates that, even now, nuclear power is considered not-green.
    - Muromec 11mo ago
      Greenpeace is a big part of the problem, especially with most of the European left being aligned with them on nuclear hate.
    - Arch-TK 11mo ago
      Being "green" is like being "organic" compared to being carbon-neutral which is something you can just calculate.
- telotortium 11mo ago
  Germany turned down all of its nuclear plants and is actively demolishing them. Good luck with that.
andrepd 11mo ago
Keeping the planet habitable, or making line go up? Truly a difficult choice... More seriously: what is the benefit for the citizens of Europe to chase trends? AI is shaping up to be a bubble. Even if "market remains irrational longer than you stay solvent", what is the purpose? Clean air, clean water, all that has value. Line going up, what does it give me?
- Muromec 11mo ago
  >More seriously: what is the benefit for the citizens of Europe to chase trends? If you sit out the trend, somebody else will have more money (or bigger army, or just an army that can actually shoot at things and people) and you will not be able to choose what trends to chase.
- wkat4242 11mo ago
  Exactly. Also, whatever those AI leaders invent, two months later the whole world has it. I mean when GPT 3.5 came out it seemed amazing, but requiring a 8x Nvidia N100 or whatever guaranteed that id never have it at home. A year or so later llama 3.1 accomplished similar results on pc at home. It's a race but the winners are only slightly ahead and wasting a lot of money doing it.
basisword 11mo ago
>> Until very recently the EU stated that being carbon neutral by 2050 was of overriding importance[1]. I'm ok with that. Not every continent/country/economic bloc has to have the same goals. Competing with the US or China in the 'AI race' is a race you're probably going to lose anyway. And it's going to make fuck all difference to the vast majority of the population anyway. Healthcare, education, life/work balance. All much more important and don't require competing in the 'AI race'. The EU has made some missteps with its tech regs but it's worth it to be able to download or delete my data from any service and that's something Americans are also benefiting from as most companies didn't bother geo-locking it. You could argue economic success has a knock on effect on everything else in a country and it does to some extent. But, while many European countries have their problems socially and politically over the last decade none of them have come anywhere close to the train wreck that is US.
- naIak 11mo ago
  >Healthcare, education, life/work balance. All much more important and don't require competing in the 'AI race'. Neither of which will improve by us being "carbon neutral".
  - basisword 11mo ago
    I think taking care of the environment rather than burning through resources needlessly will improve life for us. But if you're looking for a more specific example, moving to renewable energy and getting off Russian gas and oil would be beneficial in many ways for Europe and at a most basic level would hopefully eventually lead to lower and more predictable energy prices for consumers.
  - fyrn_ 11mo ago
    Europe not being dependent on foreign oil is a worthy goal as well, it's not the US whcih could supply it's oil use domestically. A lot of green infrastructure is also expensive upfront, but cheaper over the full lifespan. It's the kind of investment I like to see goverment making.
    - 11mo ago
miohtama 11mo ago
Finland, France and other countries can lower the price of electricity just by disconnecting neighbours like Germany from their grid.
- siva7 11mo ago
  Germany can be a leader in Green AI or emission neutral Chatbots.

flir 11mo ago

China's target is 2060.

logifail 11mo ago
> China's target is 2060 "China plans to keep building coal-fired power plants through 2027 in regions where they are needed to meet peak power demand or stabilise the grid, according to government guidelines" https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/climate-energy/china-keep-building-coal-plants-through-2027-state-planner-says-2025-04-14/ https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/climate-energy/china-...
- flir 11mo ago
  And yet they used less coal in 2024 than they did in 2023. Maybe it's just an economic downturn. But... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/26/china-breaks-more-records-with-massive-build-up-of-wind-and-solar-power https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/26/china-breaks-m... I just don't buy that carbon neutrality necessarily results in expensive electricity.
philjohn 11mo ago
China doesn't have one side of the political spectrum trying to shutter any talk of renewables, they're just installing them at breakneck speed.
- naIak 11mo ago
  We just need to execute the side of the political spectrum that we don't like. That way society will really get ahead.

bootsmann 11mo ago

Nuclear energy is carbon neutral according to the EU definition

Arch-TK 11mo ago
Is it not? What is it instead? Carbon negative?
- spwa4 11mo ago
  Greenpeace was founded to oppose nuclear energy, because it would lead to nuclear war (that was their position at least), which illustrates that, even now, nuclear power is considered not-green.
  - Muromec 11mo ago
    Greenpeace is a big part of the problem, especially with most of the European left being aligned with them on nuclear hate.
  - Arch-TK 11mo ago
    Being "green" is like being "organic" compared to being carbon-neutral which is something you can just calculate.
telotortium 11mo ago
Germany turned down all of its nuclear plants and is actively demolishing them. Good luck with that.

andrepd 11mo ago

Keeping the planet habitable, or making line go up? Truly a difficult choice... More seriously: what is the benefit for the citizens of Europe to chase trends? AI is shaping up to be a bubble. Even if "market remains irrational longer than you stay solvent", what is the purpose? Clean air, clean water, all that has value. Line going up, what does it give me?

Muromec 11mo ago
>More seriously: what is the benefit for the citizens of Europe to chase trends? If you sit out the trend, somebody else will have more money (or bigger army, or just an army that can actually shoot at things and people) and you will not be able to choose what trends to chase.
wkat4242 11mo ago
Exactly. Also, whatever those AI leaders invent, two months later the whole world has it. I mean when GPT 3.5 came out it seemed amazing, but requiring a 8x Nvidia N100 or whatever guaranteed that id never have it at home. A year or so later llama 3.1 accomplished similar results on pc at home. It's a race but the winners are only slightly ahead and wasting a lot of money doing it.

basisword 11mo ago

>> Until very recently the EU stated that being carbon neutral by 2050 was of overriding importance[1]. I'm ok with that. Not every continent/country/economic bloc has to have the same goals. Competing with the US or China in the 'AI race' is a race you're probably going to lose anyway. And it's going to make fuck all difference to the vast majority of the population anyway. Healthcare, education, life/work balance. All much more important and don't require competing in the 'AI race'. The EU has made some missteps with its tech regs but it's worth it to be able to download or delete my data from any service and that's something Americans are also benefiting from as most companies didn't bother geo-locking it. You could argue economic success has a knock on effect on everything else in a country and it does to some extent. But, while many European countries have their problems socially and politically over the last decade none of them have come anywhere close to the train wreck that is US.

naIak 11mo ago
>Healthcare, education, life/work balance. All much more important and don't require competing in the 'AI race'. Neither of which will improve by us being "carbon neutral".
- basisword 11mo ago
  I think taking care of the environment rather than burning through resources needlessly will improve life for us. But if you're looking for a more specific example, moving to renewable energy and getting off Russian gas and oil would be beneficial in many ways for Europe and at a most basic level would hopefully eventually lead to lower and more predictable energy prices for consumers.
- fyrn_ 11mo ago
  Europe not being dependent on foreign oil is a worthy goal as well, it's not the US whcih could supply it's oil use domestically. A lot of green infrastructure is also expensive upfront, but cheaper over the full lifespan. It's the kind of investment I like to see goverment making.
  - 11mo ago

miohtama 11mo ago

Finland, France and other countries can lower the price of electricity just by disconnecting neighbours like Germany from their grid.

siva7 11mo ago
Germany can be a leader in Green AI or emission neutral Chatbots.