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> For a lot of stuff it mutated into designed in China, assembled in China. What am saying is that this is not happening because shit got assembled in China bu

by csomar 1y ago

> For a lot of stuff it mutated into designed in China, assembled in China. What am saying is that this is not happening because shit got assembled in China but because of internal issues in the West. Bringing assembly back is going to make matters worse, not better; and I think this is where I (and most?) people disagree here.

DaSHacka 1y ago
> Bringing assembly back is going to make matters worse, not better; How so? Why would bringing back domestic manufacturing be worse for a country than outsourcing all of it to another country that is actively working to replace the few parts of the process your country's still involved in?
- csomar 1y ago
  Of the top of my head: pollution, jobs that negatively affect your countryman and then require expensive healthcare, side effects (noise, truck traffic) that negatively affect knowledge workers, low pay. I can't also think of any reason why bringing these jobs is a net positive. Like I get it, China is adversarial but there are 2-3 billion more people you can outsource this work to who are unlikely to get adversarial.
ReptileMan 1y ago
This is the fundamental thing you get wrong. The whole industrial knowledge thing was build because we were building stuff internally. When you are outsourcing assembly you are actually sending quite a lot of the knowledge and know how that went into the high value act of designing a thing. For free. We live at a physical world - so being able to produce physical stuff both better, more, and cheaper is extremely important for continuous dominance. The only area china is really behind seems to be commercial airlines engines. That is the only thing we never really outsourced.
- csomar 1y ago
  > When you are outsourcing assembly you are actually sending quite a lot of the knowledge and know how that went into the high value act of designing a thing. I don't think so. Employees on the chain line are not going to become literate and engineers just because you are outsourcing the menial stuff. > so being able to produce physical stuff both better, more, and cheaper That is knowledge work. > The only area china is really behind seems to be commercial airlines engines. That is the only thing we never really outsourced. It didn't stop Brazil from creating a rather very good aerospace company. I am afraid we cannot reconcile the difference in our thinking.
  - ReptileMan 1y ago
    >It didn't stop Brazil from creating a rather very good aerospace company. That uses prat and whitney and GE engines
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]

by csomar 1y ago

DaSHacka 1y ago

> Bringing assembly back is going to make matters worse, not better; How so? Why would bringing back domestic manufacturing be worse for a country than outsourcing all of it to another country that is actively working to replace the few parts of the process your country's still involved in?

csomar 1y ago
Of the top of my head: pollution, jobs that negatively affect your countryman and then require expensive healthcare, side effects (noise, truck traffic) that negatively affect knowledge workers, low pay. I can't also think of any reason why bringing these jobs is a net positive. Like I get it, China is adversarial but there are 2-3 billion more people you can outsource this work to who are unlikely to get adversarial.

ReptileMan 1y ago

This is the fundamental thing you get wrong. The whole industrial knowledge thing was build because we were building stuff internally. When you are outsourcing assembly you are actually sending quite a lot of the knowledge and know how that went into the high value act of designing a thing. For free. We live at a physical world - so being able to produce physical stuff both better, more, and cheaper is extremely important for continuous dominance. The only area china is really behind seems to be commercial airlines engines. That is the only thing we never really outsourced.

csomar 1y ago
> When you are outsourcing assembly you are actually sending quite a lot of the knowledge and know how that went into the high value act of designing a thing. I don't think so. Employees on the chain line are not going to become literate and engineers just because you are outsourcing the menial stuff. > so being able to produce physical stuff both better, more, and cheaper That is knowledge work. > The only area china is really behind seems to be commercial airlines engines. That is the only thing we never really outsourced. It didn't stop Brazil from creating a rather very good aerospace company. I am afraid we cannot reconcile the difference in our thinking.
- ReptileMan 1y ago
  >It didn't stop Brazil from creating a rather very good aerospace company. That uses prat and whitney and GE engines
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]