5 ms·

Why is this still not standardized?

by creshal 11mo ago

wahern 11mo ago
The original proposal at https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n1406.pdf https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n1406.pdf explains why. > Some implementations have permitted anonymous member-structures and -unions in extended C to contain tags, which allows tricks such as the following. struct point { float x, y, z; }; struct location { char *name; struct point; // inheritance in extended C, but // forward declaration in C++ }; > This proposal does not support that practice, for two reasons. First, it introduces a gratuitous difference between C and C++, since C++ implementations must treat the declaration of point within location as a forward reference to the type location::point rather than a definition of an unnamed member. Second, this feature does not seem to be used widely in applications, perhaps because it compiles differently in extended C vs. C++.
- avadodin 11mo ago
  If C and C++ standardization had included both languages since the beginning, compatibility could have been a thing but it didn't so the languages have diverged since C-with-classes. I don't understand why the C standard has to get bogged down with bizarro-world-C restrictions from C++. It's 2025, people have to give up on C/C++.
  - IsTom 11mo ago
    C++ routinely includes C headers and this would affect that. I think most things valid in C, but not C++ don't affect declarations.
  - johnisgood 11mo ago
    > It's 2025, people have to give up on C/C++. No, people should not give up on C. ??? You do realize there are a lot of projects written in C, right? Including Linux and most of its programs / utilities that you may be using. I have new projects written in C, too, and you can do a lot to check for potential bugs using various flags to GCC / Clang, among other things like cppcheck and the rest. No, people should not give up on C. C is really good to know, for many reasons... even if you are not going to use it.
    - bmacho 11mo ago
      I believe GP meant that the idea of C/C++ should be abandoned, that is, that C and C++ are compatible languages. GP thinks that they should diverge more when necessary, none of them should be held back for the compatibility with the other.
      - johnisgood 11mo ago
        Well, I agree with that.

Why is this still not standardized?

by creshal 11mo ago

Why is this still not standardized?

wahern 11mo ago

The original proposal at https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n1406.pdf https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n1406.pdf explains why. > Some implementations have permitted anonymous member-structures and -unions in extended C to contain tags, which allows tricks such as the following. struct point { float x, y, z; }; struct location { char *name; struct point; // inheritance in extended C, but // forward declaration in C++ }; > This proposal does not support that practice, for two reasons. First, it introduces a gratuitous difference between C and C++, since C++ implementations must treat the declaration of point within location as a forward reference to the type location::point rather than a definition of an unnamed member. Second, this feature does not seem to be used widely in applications, perhaps because it compiles differently in extended C vs. C++.

avadodin 11mo ago
If C and C++ standardization had included both languages since the beginning, compatibility could have been a thing but it didn't so the languages have diverged since C-with-classes. I don't understand why the C standard has to get bogged down with bizarro-world-C restrictions from C++. It's 2025, people have to give up on C/C++.
- IsTom 11mo ago
  C++ routinely includes C headers and this would affect that. I think most things valid in C, but not C++ don't affect declarations.
- johnisgood 11mo ago
  > It's 2025, people have to give up on C/C++. No, people should not give up on C. ??? You do realize there are a lot of projects written in C, right? Including Linux and most of its programs / utilities that you may be using. I have new projects written in C, too, and you can do a lot to check for potential bugs using various flags to GCC / Clang, among other things like cppcheck and the rest. No, people should not give up on C. C is really good to know, for many reasons... even if you are not going to use it.
  - bmacho 11mo ago
    I believe GP meant that the idea of C/C++ should be abandoned, that is, that C and C++ are compatible languages. GP thinks that they should diverge more when necessary, none of them should be held back for the compatibility with the other.
    - johnisgood 11mo ago
      Well, I agree with that.