17 ms·

Relevant recent incident: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/nov/08/environmental-catastrophe-fears-as-millions-of-plastic-beads-wash-up-on-camber-sands

by time4tea 11mo ago

Relevant recent incident: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/nov/08/environmental-catastrophe-fears-as-millions-of-plastic-beads-wash-up-on-camber-sands https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/nov/08/environmenta... Obvs, uk gov does nothing

gerdesj 11mo ago
"Dollimore, the Labour and Cooperative MP who joined the clean-up efforts,"
- Sharlin 11mo ago
  Well, I guess you could say that the government is doing something if a single member of parliament chooses to do some volunteer work on her free time.
  - gerdesj 11mo ago
    You did ask
hexbin010 11mo ago
The water companies are too busy lobbying for price rises/manufacturing consent in the media (of which these stories are a part of. The water companies will again claim they are a victim of low bills meaning they can't invest which is what causes these events...) It's all so insidious UK gov will permit bills to rise and nothing will fundamentally change when it comes to water in the UK except how much we pay
HPsquared 11mo ago
From a wastewater treatment plant no less. "This is the one thing we didn't want to happen"
fennecfoxy 11mo ago
UK government makes me sick, and what makes me even more sick is that no political party in the UK seems capable of fixing what needs to be fixed; they all focus on the particular populist opinions within their particular voter bases. It's really quite sad. I just wish people would work together to compromise but it seems all over the world there's this intense tribal effect. I guess evolution is to blame, we never evolved to live in such large groups as we are now and as individuals modern life is far too complicated to have enough attention span to worry about every little thing, especially when governments and corporations often purposefully make it very difficult.
- symbogra 11mo ago
  The UK has a clear path to overcome the failure of democracy when people vote along purely tribal lines; the King should retake power and rule benevolently for the good of the UK.
- lukan 11mo ago
  "we never evolved to live in such large groups as we are now" Then maybe this is the problem? And the solution to build smaller societies again where the individual can have meaningful impact and not give up from the start to even try to move the buerocratic leviathan even a little bit in the right direction?
  - AngryData 11mo ago
    Which does sound nice, but then runs into the problems of neighbors who don't follow those same rules and who decided to eat your lunch, either economically through unrestrained capitalism seeking infinite growth over sustainability, or militarily to feed their internal economic pyramid scheme, or maybe just because assholes run their country and believe they are better and more deserving and decided might makes right. There are significant efficiency gains to be had with increasing organizational and operational sizes, the problem is many people assume those gains will benefit everyone, at least partially, rather than the more common reality of all that efficiency being redirected towards the personal gains of a few. And billions of dollars are spent year after year to convince the common people that they will get screwed more if they don't allow it to happen because all the efficiency gains, that they have never actually experienced, will disappear.
    - lukan 11mo ago
      "eat your lunch .. or militarily" Obviously all empires want to grow and devour the independent small states/societies and this is what happened and this is why only gigantic states(and those small ones siding with them) stand a chance today. But a often tried out concept is that of federation. Meaning (semi) autonomous entieties get together for common benefits, like military defense and infrastructure. But of course also those have a tendency to turn into empires. (The Delian League in ancient greece comes to mind, or well the russian federation today. ) But that does not mean it must be always like this. I believe there is a sweet spot that can be achieved and stays stable. But the current Zeitgeist seems to head in another direction.
scott_w 11mo ago
The previous Secretary for DEFRA (Steve Reed) saw passage of the Water (Special Measures) Act which allows the government to bring criminal charges against water company executives for persistent lawbreaking. So to say, "uk gov does nothing" is simply not true. The Labour government has started doing things. However, it's starting from a place where the previous Conservative government functionally removed all legal requirements. In particular, Liz Truss in the same role issued instruction that water companies no longer need to monitor sewage outflows and can just self-report. EDIT: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/water-special-measures-bill-policy-statement/water-special-measures-bill-policy-statement#bring-criminal-charges-against-persistent-law-breakers https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/water-special-mea...
- callamdelaney 11mo ago
  'allows' being the operative term here which means that the statement you attempt to contradict has not been contradicted. How many executives has the UK government sought to prosecute under this law?
  - scott_w 11mo ago
    > 'allows' being the operative term here which means that the statement you attempt to contradict has not been contradicted. That's a totally absurd statement in response to "the current government put a new law on the books to give themselves the power to prosecute." > How many executives has the UK government sought to prosecute under this law? As stated in my original reply: it came into force in February 2025. It's currently November 2025. It takes time to commit "multiple" offences, particularly given they need to be investigated and convicted. And no, dumping sewage twice doesn't automatically count under any legal regime. In addition, DEFRA identified that Ofwat (the water regulator) is not fit for purpose in July 2025 and set out a proposal to abolish and replace it. So yes, it does contradict your statement because the government is literally acting. What would you propose happen instead? That the government hold show trials and just start locking up water company staff and execs?
georgefrowny 11mo ago
Drops the word "biobeads", refuses to elaborate on what that means. Such shit journalism. They're small plastic beads uses to provide a large surface area for biological decomposition of waste in wastewater plants as water flows though big mesh tanks full of them. In doing so they become contaminated with various biological and chemical toxins.
- SideburnsOfDoom 11mo ago
  I have heard of ponds being filtered that way using a basket of pebbles. I suppose that there are some advantages of using plastic instead of rocks for this - for one thing it's lighter in bulk. But well, here is the disadvantage. A spill of small rocks isn't usually an environmental issue.
  - georgefrowny 11mo ago
    Apparently that they float is important to the process. I guess so they don't need to dig them out with an excavator or some mechanism and can just float them out to be changed.

gerdesj 11mo ago

"Dollimore, the Labour and Cooperative MP who joined the clean-up efforts,"

Sharlin 11mo ago
Well, I guess you could say that the government is doing something if a single member of parliament chooses to do some volunteer work on her free time.
- gerdesj 11mo ago
  You did ask

hexbin010 11mo ago

The water companies are too busy lobbying for price rises/manufacturing consent in the media (of which these stories are a part of. The water companies will again claim they are a victim of low bills meaning they can't invest which is what causes these events...) It's all so insidious UK gov will permit bills to rise and nothing will fundamentally change when it comes to water in the UK except how much we pay

HPsquared 11mo ago

From a wastewater treatment plant no less. "This is the one thing we didn't want to happen"

fennecfoxy 11mo ago

UK government makes me sick, and what makes me even more sick is that no political party in the UK seems capable of fixing what needs to be fixed; they all focus on the particular populist opinions within their particular voter bases. It's really quite sad. I just wish people would work together to compromise but it seems all over the world there's this intense tribal effect. I guess evolution is to blame, we never evolved to live in such large groups as we are now and as individuals modern life is far too complicated to have enough attention span to worry about every little thing, especially when governments and corporations often purposefully make it very difficult.

symbogra 11mo ago
The UK has a clear path to overcome the failure of democracy when people vote along purely tribal lines; the King should retake power and rule benevolently for the good of the UK.
lukan 11mo ago
"we never evolved to live in such large groups as we are now" Then maybe this is the problem? And the solution to build smaller societies again where the individual can have meaningful impact and not give up from the start to even try to move the buerocratic leviathan even a little bit in the right direction?
- AngryData 11mo ago
  Which does sound nice, but then runs into the problems of neighbors who don't follow those same rules and who decided to eat your lunch, either economically through unrestrained capitalism seeking infinite growth over sustainability, or militarily to feed their internal economic pyramid scheme, or maybe just because assholes run their country and believe they are better and more deserving and decided might makes right. There are significant efficiency gains to be had with increasing organizational and operational sizes, the problem is many people assume those gains will benefit everyone, at least partially, rather than the more common reality of all that efficiency being redirected towards the personal gains of a few. And billions of dollars are spent year after year to convince the common people that they will get screwed more if they don't allow it to happen because all the efficiency gains, that they have never actually experienced, will disappear.
  - lukan 11mo ago
    "eat your lunch .. or militarily" Obviously all empires want to grow and devour the independent small states/societies and this is what happened and this is why only gigantic states(and those small ones siding with them) stand a chance today. But a often tried out concept is that of federation. Meaning (semi) autonomous entieties get together for common benefits, like military defense and infrastructure. But of course also those have a tendency to turn into empires. (The Delian League in ancient greece comes to mind, or well the russian federation today. ) But that does not mean it must be always like this. I believe there is a sweet spot that can be achieved and stays stable. But the current Zeitgeist seems to head in another direction.

scott_w 11mo ago

The previous Secretary for DEFRA (Steve Reed) saw passage of the Water (Special Measures) Act which allows the government to bring criminal charges against water company executives for persistent lawbreaking. So to say, "uk gov does nothing" is simply not true. The Labour government has started doing things. However, it's starting from a place where the previous Conservative government functionally removed all legal requirements. In particular, Liz Truss in the same role issued instruction that water companies no longer need to monitor sewage outflows and can just self-report. EDIT: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/water-special-measures-bill-policy-statement/water-special-measures-bill-policy-statement#bring-criminal-charges-against-persistent-law-breakers https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/water-special-mea...

callamdelaney 11mo ago
'allows' being the operative term here which means that the statement you attempt to contradict has not been contradicted. How many executives has the UK government sought to prosecute under this law?
- scott_w 11mo ago
  > 'allows' being the operative term here which means that the statement you attempt to contradict has not been contradicted. That's a totally absurd statement in response to "the current government put a new law on the books to give themselves the power to prosecute." > How many executives has the UK government sought to prosecute under this law? As stated in my original reply: it came into force in February 2025. It's currently November 2025. It takes time to commit "multiple" offences, particularly given they need to be investigated and convicted. And no, dumping sewage twice doesn't automatically count under any legal regime. In addition, DEFRA identified that Ofwat (the water regulator) is not fit for purpose in July 2025 and set out a proposal to abolish and replace it. So yes, it does contradict your statement because the government is literally acting. What would you propose happen instead? That the government hold show trials and just start locking up water company staff and execs?

georgefrowny 11mo ago

Drops the word "biobeads", refuses to elaborate on what that means. Such shit journalism. They're small plastic beads uses to provide a large surface area for biological decomposition of waste in wastewater plants as water flows though big mesh tanks full of them. In doing so they become contaminated with various biological and chemical toxins.

SideburnsOfDoom 11mo ago
I have heard of ponds being filtered that way using a basket of pebbles. I suppose that there are some advantages of using plastic instead of rocks for this - for one thing it's lighter in bulk. But well, here is the disadvantage. A spill of small rocks isn't usually an environmental issue.
- georgefrowny 11mo ago
  Apparently that they float is important to the process. I guess so they don't need to dig them out with an excavator or some mechanism and can just float them out to be changed.