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I don't understand why people say there are no firmware updates. Between my house, my parents' house and my girlfriend's parents' house, I have set up 4 differ

I don't understand why people say there are no firmware updates. Between my house, my parents' house and my girlfriend's parents' house, I have set up 4 different types of TP-Link routers. To my surprise, all of them continue to receive firmware updates years after launch. Most recently last month on some models. I don't get the hate. They're cheap, they work and they have SOME security features which make them more than adequate for home use. They're not perfect, but then again, for the price point, what do people expect?

Angostura 11mo ago
Yeh, I was going to say. My m4R is at least 15 years old and got a firmware update last month
bayindirh 11mo ago
Same here. Running a small fleet of TP-Link gear across three homes. They all get firmware updates regularly.
0manrho 11mo ago
Agreed. Are TP-Link the bastion of advanced security/tech/features and futureproofing? No. But they do what they say they do on the box, and do it reliably which unfortunately is more than you can say for a lot of things these days, no matter the price/payment model. If you just need a basic ass device for simple non-critical shit without a bunch of proprietary bullshit and dark patterns, it's hard to beat TPLink for the money. The fact that they still get support/updates long passed the typical lifespan of competing devices several times their price point is just icing on the cake.
- sysguest 11mo ago
  > But they do what they say they do on the box fuk no their spec is overbloated SHT. I've never seen a router crawl like 300kbps on a 1.2gbps line (simply changing that to a no-named cheap generic one got me 880mbps) fck I don't even care about backdoors -- even if you put them, just fking at least make them up-to-spec
falleng0d 11mo ago
This may be true, but until when? PRC can demand anytime and have you part of a botnet. Are you comfortable leaving it in their hands?
- bayindirh 11mo ago
  Who can guarantee that the Cisco/UniFi or whatever Made in USA gear won't be a host to a state sanctioned "lawful interception software" politely pushed to many devices with the help of a National Security Letter?
  - falleng0d 11mo ago
    Is this supposed to be some kind of gotcha? Of course this can happen. and not only I support it but I think they should do it more and use it to get a shot on any criminal or foreign power. We can do it, but we shouldn’t expose ourselves for the possibility of our opponents doing it. That simple
    - bayindirh 11mo ago
      Who is "we" in this context? I'm neither from US nor from China, so I don't belong to either "we". So in my case no hardware is safer unless I design the board and develop the firmware on top of it. Even then, I'm not sure whether there are hardware vulnerabilities baked in.
      - falleng0d 11mo ago
        I think it’s safe to say that by “We” we can assume it would be your country and its allies. War and spying has been a thing for a long time now. I think it’s unreasonable to expect countries to not make use of their respective industries and enterprises to get an edge on each other. The fact is that this kind of hardware is just very good for that so as I a costumer, I feel you and I think the best we can do is buy a custom hardware and install a custom OS. Like open-wrt. But I will not complain of my country doing that because when I see adversaries doing it, it’s completely reasonable that it also do. In fact, game theory, mandates it.
OJFord 11mo ago
I didn't realise there was so much TP-Link hate - as consumer networking gear goes I think they're pretty good and trustworthy. Vs. say Tenda or XGFHIU. (I use mainly Mikrotik at home, but my only AP currently is a TP-link 'extender' (it's 'extending' via ethernet, and the only AP doing so), it's ok.) Kind of like Anker in batteries and earphones: maybe at some point it was the 'dodgy Chinese brand', but now a solid contender/front-running third-party. I don't if there's any connection (no pun intended) but in my head TP-Link kind of took over from D-Link at some point as a sort of low-end-Netgear/Asus competitor.
mrbonner 11mo ago
Really? I bought an Archer AC1200 at Costco. It was a recent model at the time but received no updates after 1 year.
ChrisMarshallNY 11mo ago
I just brought a new TP-Link (Omada brand) to replace a (also fairly new) D-Link router that would just stop working, every couple of weeks; requiring a reboot. The performance of my network immediately jumped up. The D-Link might have a hardware issue (but it’s not worth trying to get them to address it, as it’s intermittent by weeks, and they’ll just gaslight me, if I try), or it could just be crap firmware. A lot of hardware companies treat their firmware teams like shit. Doesn’t matter. I’m avoiding their routers, in the future. I have had good luck with their switches, though.
- ectospheno 11mo ago
  I don’t use them anymore, but the TP-Link EAP225v3 remains the lowest latency WiFi access point I have ever used. I occasionally miss them.
Cthulhu_ 11mo ago
The "hate" is the same as the backlash to Huawei, which is the suspicion that there's Chinese government-accessible backdoors that can cripple infrastructure. However, as far as I'm aware none of that has been found yet. And since multiple countries have state-level and state-funded hackers / IT security experts who have the time, budget, and capability to completely dismantle and disassemble these devices (plus enthousiastic hobbyists), you'd think they would have found concrete evidence already. If there was any. I have faith in "our" capacity to uncover backdoors.
- monkeytests 11mo ago
  Why take that chance, for some slightly cheaper routers? I have respect for human creativity, and the limits of public servants. Its not easy to keep constant vigilance against all possible backdoors. Easier to restrict core infra devices from openly hostile areas.
  - Tyrek 11mo ago
    Why take the chance that the food you buy from the grocer may be contaminated? I have respect for human creativity, and the limits of farmers. It's not easy to keep constant vigilance against all sources of contamination. Easier to restrict food to only what you produce yourself. Glibness aside, there's clearly a continuum to the concept of 'we live in a society', and to how far the monkey brain's tribe extends. But the argument against routers is clearly arising from a biased set of priors, whether fairly or unfairly.
    - Retric 11mo ago
      > Why take the chance that the food you buy from the grocer may be contaminated? Food doesn’t have the incentives here, and because the FDA is involved with food production they regularly discovers issues and issues recalls etc. Even better manufactures can no longer influence food after it enters a distribution center limiting their ability to hide issues. Now suppose you deploy a home router with automatic updates, that’s not necessarily malicious but means the device can be under the manufacturer’s control whenever they wish. Saying we haven’t discovered malicious activity is therefore meaningless here.
jajuuka 11mo ago
Absolutely. I have an older unmanaged switch that is still getting updates MANY years later. I've been consistently impressed with TP-Link. I even picked up a WiFi 7 router with all this talk of banning them. Just feels like politicians removing players from the market so the companies they can invest in do better since they are the only choice available.
illiac786 11mo ago
It would be great if someone had compiled some data (with sources) on home routers based on release dates and date of last firmware update received. That could be translated into a “sw sustainability index” for home router vendors which I believe would be useful.

Angostura 11mo ago

Yeh, I was going to say. My m4R is at least 15 years old and got a firmware update last month

bayindirh 11mo ago

Same here. Running a small fleet of TP-Link gear across three homes. They all get firmware updates regularly.

0manrho 11mo ago

Agreed. Are TP-Link the bastion of advanced security/tech/features and futureproofing? No. But they do what they say they do on the box, and do it reliably which unfortunately is more than you can say for a lot of things these days, no matter the price/payment model. If you just need a basic ass device for simple non-critical shit without a bunch of proprietary bullshit and dark patterns, it's hard to beat TPLink for the money. The fact that they still get support/updates long passed the typical lifespan of competing devices several times their price point is just icing on the cake.

sysguest 11mo ago
> But they do what they say they do on the box fuk no their spec is overbloated SHT. I've never seen a router crawl like 300kbps on a 1.2gbps line (simply changing that to a no-named cheap generic one got me 880mbps) fck I don't even care about backdoors -- even if you put them, just fking at least make them up-to-spec

falleng0d 11mo ago

This may be true, but until when? PRC can demand anytime and have you part of a botnet. Are you comfortable leaving it in their hands?

bayindirh 11mo ago
Who can guarantee that the Cisco/UniFi or whatever Made in USA gear won't be a host to a state sanctioned "lawful interception software" politely pushed to many devices with the help of a National Security Letter?
- falleng0d 11mo ago
  Is this supposed to be some kind of gotcha? Of course this can happen. and not only I support it but I think they should do it more and use it to get a shot on any criminal or foreign power. We can do it, but we shouldn’t expose ourselves for the possibility of our opponents doing it. That simple
  - bayindirh 11mo ago
    Who is "we" in this context? I'm neither from US nor from China, so I don't belong to either "we". So in my case no hardware is safer unless I design the board and develop the firmware on top of it. Even then, I'm not sure whether there are hardware vulnerabilities baked in.
    - falleng0d 11mo ago
      I think it’s safe to say that by “We” we can assume it would be your country and its allies. War and spying has been a thing for a long time now. I think it’s unreasonable to expect countries to not make use of their respective industries and enterprises to get an edge on each other. The fact is that this kind of hardware is just very good for that so as I a costumer, I feel you and I think the best we can do is buy a custom hardware and install a custom OS. Like open-wrt. But I will not complain of my country doing that because when I see adversaries doing it, it’s completely reasonable that it also do. In fact, game theory, mandates it.

OJFord 11mo ago

I didn't realise there was so much TP-Link hate - as consumer networking gear goes I think they're pretty good and trustworthy. Vs. say Tenda or XGFHIU. (I use mainly Mikrotik at home, but my only AP currently is a TP-link 'extender' (it's 'extending' via ethernet, and the only AP doing so), it's ok.) Kind of like Anker in batteries and earphones: maybe at some point it was the 'dodgy Chinese brand', but now a solid contender/front-running third-party. I don't if there's any connection (no pun intended) but in my head TP-Link kind of took over from D-Link at some point as a sort of low-end-Netgear/Asus competitor.

mrbonner 11mo ago

Really? I bought an Archer AC1200 at Costco. It was a recent model at the time but received no updates after 1 year.

ChrisMarshallNY 11mo ago

I just brought a new TP-Link (Omada brand) to replace a (also fairly new) D-Link router that would just stop working, every couple of weeks; requiring a reboot. The performance of my network immediately jumped up. The D-Link might have a hardware issue (but it’s not worth trying to get them to address it, as it’s intermittent by weeks, and they’ll just gaslight me, if I try), or it could just be crap firmware. A lot of hardware companies treat their firmware teams like shit. Doesn’t matter. I’m avoiding their routers, in the future. I have had good luck with their switches, though.

ectospheno 11mo ago
I don’t use them anymore, but the TP-Link EAP225v3 remains the lowest latency WiFi access point I have ever used. I occasionally miss them.

Cthulhu_ 11mo ago

The "hate" is the same as the backlash to Huawei, which is the suspicion that there's Chinese government-accessible backdoors that can cripple infrastructure. However, as far as I'm aware none of that has been found yet. And since multiple countries have state-level and state-funded hackers / IT security experts who have the time, budget, and capability to completely dismantle and disassemble these devices (plus enthousiastic hobbyists), you'd think they would have found concrete evidence already. If there was any. I have faith in "our" capacity to uncover backdoors.

monkeytests 11mo ago
Why take that chance, for some slightly cheaper routers? I have respect for human creativity, and the limits of public servants. Its not easy to keep constant vigilance against all possible backdoors. Easier to restrict core infra devices from openly hostile areas.
- Tyrek 11mo ago
  Why take the chance that the food you buy from the grocer may be contaminated? I have respect for human creativity, and the limits of farmers. It's not easy to keep constant vigilance against all sources of contamination. Easier to restrict food to only what you produce yourself. Glibness aside, there's clearly a continuum to the concept of 'we live in a society', and to how far the monkey brain's tribe extends. But the argument against routers is clearly arising from a biased set of priors, whether fairly or unfairly.
  - Retric 11mo ago
    > Why take the chance that the food you buy from the grocer may be contaminated? Food doesn’t have the incentives here, and because the FDA is involved with food production they regularly discovers issues and issues recalls etc. Even better manufactures can no longer influence food after it enters a distribution center limiting their ability to hide issues. Now suppose you deploy a home router with automatic updates, that’s not necessarily malicious but means the device can be under the manufacturer’s control whenever they wish. Saying we haven’t discovered malicious activity is therefore meaningless here.

jajuuka 11mo ago

Absolutely. I have an older unmanaged switch that is still getting updates MANY years later. I've been consistently impressed with TP-Link. I even picked up a WiFi 7 router with all this talk of banning them. Just feels like politicians removing players from the market so the companies they can invest in do better since they are the only choice available.

illiac786 11mo ago

It would be great if someone had compiled some data (with sources) on home routers based on release dates and date of last firmware update received. That could be translated into a “sw sustainability index” for home router vendors which I believe would be useful.