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Plumbing, HVAC and other skilled trades operate almost entirely B2B, not B2C. The very premise of this article is why that is the case...people who don't unders

Plumbing, HVAC and other skilled trades operate almost entirely B2B, not B2C. The very premise of this article is why that is the case...people who don't understand what is required, what is good, and how construction operates shopping solely on price with unreasonable expectations. That $22k quote? That's how a company can pay for capacity during peak demand...i.e. paying skilled workers enough to make extra long hours with no expectation of repeat business worth the effort, paying suppliers enough to get priority access to inventory, and of course making it worth dealing with customer-is-always-right amateurs. Uber operates by letting customers not give a shit about their drivers (and not giving a shit about them itself). In the world where people have reasonable options, relationships matter and relationships are non-fungible.

MichaelZuo 1y ago
So then where are the premium HVAC companies for the residential market charging a higher price but offering credible guarantees?
- mothballed 1y ago
  Best I can do is $1000 to change a capacitor that any tom dick or harry could do, and $10,000 to install a mini split that I literally did myself for $1000 in tools and watching 8 hours of youtube. The industry is largely a scam. There is no reason why you need a brick and mortar fixed business for many HVAC tasks. On one occasion, I knew exactly what was wrong but as a tenant so I could not perform the work myself. I had to deduct $1000 rent from my landlord becaues I had to pay an HVAC guy so I would not break the law literally replacing a plug-and-play blower motor myself. The guy didn't diagnose anything, or need any skill, I just told him exactly what to do and he was in and out in like 5 minutes.
  - binoct 11mo ago
    Calling the industry largely a scam is pretty strong. Of course for the small minority of technically competent people with interest and time it will always be cheaper to do something yourself rather than pay a business to accomplish the same thing. But most people cannot/do not want to do it themselves, and regulations are there at least partially to help protect them against the house-fire-waiting-to-happen untrained handyman. Sure a bunch of businesses opportunistically up-charge, some I'm sure are predatory, and there are obviously efficiencies to improve, but overall scam it is not.
  - brudgers 11mo ago
    A building is where a business stores tools and inventory, provides desks with computers and phones, and parks the trucks at night.
    - mothballed 11mo ago
      [flagged]
- vkou 11mo ago
  Go with a good vendor and you won't have a problem. The problem is, of course, that both good and bad vendors will charge similar amounts.
- verall 11mo ago
  You have to find someone who is local and stands by their work (this can be tough but talk to neighbors/friends/etc). Then treat them well by always paying a tip over the quoted price. Honest businesspeople exist, they will remember your generosity, stand by their work, and go the extra mile to make it right if they make a mistake. It's relationships, not legal guarantees. There's not enough paper in the world to protect you from a dishonest contractor or tradesman. Finding someone honest and then overpaying is the premium option.
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
- brudgers 11mo ago
  Those companies are doing premium work for good customers...or at least charging enough to make dealing with poor customers less an issue. In the case of the author, the $22k quote is a good way of segmenting the market. Remember the author was just a prospect, not a client since the author choked on the price.
  - MichaelZuo 11mo ago
    How does a prospective customer tell if a high price is just a confidence trick, or if it’s genuinely indicative of a high credibility company?
    - brudgers 11mo ago
      A busy residential HVAC company does many many jobs a year. A highly reputable tradesperson will happily give you a long list of references…I once had a conversation with a roofer who metaphorically pointed his finger and said “I did that roof and that roof and that roof over there and three on the next block…please ask those customers.” A grifter will not give you that kind of answer…unless they are admirably good.
- hardtke 11mo ago
  If you want to understand the state of these industries I highly recommend reading "How contracting because a race to the bottom"[0]. The crux of the problem is that unlicensed/uninsured firms will always undercut "quality" firms for small jobs. If you are getting a quote from a firm that actually pays workers compensation insurance it's going to be at a substantially higher price. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/07/magazine/contractors-construction-real-estate.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/07/magazine/contractors-cons...
  - mothballed 11mo ago
    You can hire from a sole proprietor working on his own behalf. Since he's working for himself he doesn't need workers comp but yet can still be licensed and legally operating.
    - michaelsbradley 11mo ago
      My wife and I bought a house in 2022. It's an old home (built in the late 1800s) that underwent a gut rehab by a real estate firm in 2018-19, and which they subsequently ran as an Airbnb for several years owing to the pandemic and its effects on the housing market. By 2024, it became apparent that while the rehab squad had done a really amazing job on most of the house, they also cut corners here and there and made some costly mistakes... well, costly to us. We needed two major jobs done on the house, both for the exterior. I got several quotes from respected contracting firms in the St. Louis area, and the best price for Job A was around USD $40k while the best price for Job B was around $20k. Those were all multi-employee firms and promised to get the jobs done in just a few days once they could get started (booked solid for 5+ months). Long story short, we ended up hiring a local solo contractor (never has helpers) with 40+ years experience who only takes cash and is something of a perfectionist (and dare devil!). Watching him work and talking to him about his work, it's clear he considers his efforts to be labors of love and a kind of art to which he is deeply devoted. He got the work done in a timely manner and was careful to abide by all the rules of the neighborhood association related to exteriors of historic homes. He charged USD $8k and $5 for the jobs, a massive savings for us! I'm not sure what we'll do in 20 years when we'll likely need another round of work and this guy is in his late 80s.
mannykannot 1y ago
Well said, and I suspect that the author's harrowing experience (in the first paragraph) was a preview of what surge pricing would look like in this market, post-Uberization.
gruez 1y ago
>In the world where people have reasonable options, relationships matter and relationships are non-fungible. What type of homeowner hires their plumber/HVAC guy based on "relationships"? They might only need a visit only once in a few years, so the idea of "relationships" is laughable.
- doctoring 11mo ago
  I mean, I do? As do most of my friends who are homeowners. We are constantly asking each other for recommendations for people who can do X. Hire a couple of disasters, and you will appreciate that a good relationship with a good contractor/tradesperson is worth an incredible amount of money (and time).
- verall 11mo ago
  I think this is how most homeowners hire this type of people, they either "have a guy" or they ask their friends/neighbors if they "have a guy". I have an HVAC guy who is miles better than the HVAC company with ~50 techs that I had come out before I found him. But if I needed some plumbing work done, I'd ask my neighbors, since I've never gotten plumbing done before. If neither of these they fall back to advertising, door-to-door sales, classifieds, google reviews.
- brudgers 11mo ago
  The kind of homeowner who pays a reasonable rate to get their AC repaired during a Houston heatwave. The first AC guy at my last house and us had kids in the same third grade classroom. Later when his business changed to commercial work, Charlie put us on to a semi-retired AC guy who kept us running for several years until we moved. By the way, Charlie was recommended by our neighbor two doors down when we moved in.

MichaelZuo 1y ago

So then where are the premium HVAC companies for the residential market charging a higher price but offering credible guarantees?

mothballed 1y ago
Best I can do is $1000 to change a capacitor that any tom dick or harry could do, and $10,000 to install a mini split that I literally did myself for $1000 in tools and watching 8 hours of youtube. The industry is largely a scam. There is no reason why you need a brick and mortar fixed business for many HVAC tasks. On one occasion, I knew exactly what was wrong but as a tenant so I could not perform the work myself. I had to deduct $1000 rent from my landlord becaues I had to pay an HVAC guy so I would not break the law literally replacing a plug-and-play blower motor myself. The guy didn't diagnose anything, or need any skill, I just told him exactly what to do and he was in and out in like 5 minutes.
- binoct 11mo ago
  Calling the industry largely a scam is pretty strong. Of course for the small minority of technically competent people with interest and time it will always be cheaper to do something yourself rather than pay a business to accomplish the same thing. But most people cannot/do not want to do it themselves, and regulations are there at least partially to help protect them against the house-fire-waiting-to-happen untrained handyman. Sure a bunch of businesses opportunistically up-charge, some I'm sure are predatory, and there are obviously efficiencies to improve, but overall scam it is not.
- brudgers 11mo ago
  A building is where a business stores tools and inventory, provides desks with computers and phones, and parks the trucks at night.
  - mothballed 11mo ago
    [flagged]
vkou 11mo ago
Go with a good vendor and you won't have a problem. The problem is, of course, that both good and bad vendors will charge similar amounts.
verall 11mo ago
You have to find someone who is local and stands by their work (this can be tough but talk to neighbors/friends/etc). Then treat them well by always paying a tip over the quoted price. Honest businesspeople exist, they will remember your generosity, stand by their work, and go the extra mile to make it right if they make a mistake. It's relationships, not legal guarantees. There's not enough paper in the world to protect you from a dishonest contractor or tradesman. Finding someone honest and then overpaying is the premium option.
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
brudgers 11mo ago
Those companies are doing premium work for good customers...or at least charging enough to make dealing with poor customers less an issue. In the case of the author, the $22k quote is a good way of segmenting the market. Remember the author was just a prospect, not a client since the author choked on the price.
- MichaelZuo 11mo ago
  How does a prospective customer tell if a high price is just a confidence trick, or if it’s genuinely indicative of a high credibility company?
  - brudgers 11mo ago
    A busy residential HVAC company does many many jobs a year. A highly reputable tradesperson will happily give you a long list of references…I once had a conversation with a roofer who metaphorically pointed his finger and said “I did that roof and that roof and that roof over there and three on the next block…please ask those customers.” A grifter will not give you that kind of answer…unless they are admirably good.
hardtke 11mo ago
If you want to understand the state of these industries I highly recommend reading "How contracting because a race to the bottom"[0]. The crux of the problem is that unlicensed/uninsured firms will always undercut "quality" firms for small jobs. If you are getting a quote from a firm that actually pays workers compensation insurance it's going to be at a substantially higher price. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/07/magazine/contractors-construction-real-estate.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/07/magazine/contractors-cons...
- mothballed 11mo ago
  You can hire from a sole proprietor working on his own behalf. Since he's working for himself he doesn't need workers comp but yet can still be licensed and legally operating.
  - michaelsbradley 11mo ago
    My wife and I bought a house in 2022. It's an old home (built in the late 1800s) that underwent a gut rehab by a real estate firm in 2018-19, and which they subsequently ran as an Airbnb for several years owing to the pandemic and its effects on the housing market. By 2024, it became apparent that while the rehab squad had done a really amazing job on most of the house, they also cut corners here and there and made some costly mistakes... well, costly to us. We needed two major jobs done on the house, both for the exterior. I got several quotes from respected contracting firms in the St. Louis area, and the best price for Job A was around USD $40k while the best price for Job B was around $20k. Those were all multi-employee firms and promised to get the jobs done in just a few days once they could get started (booked solid for 5+ months). Long story short, we ended up hiring a local solo contractor (never has helpers) with 40+ years experience who only takes cash and is something of a perfectionist (and dare devil!). Watching him work and talking to him about his work, it's clear he considers his efforts to be labors of love and a kind of art to which he is deeply devoted. He got the work done in a timely manner and was careful to abide by all the rules of the neighborhood association related to exteriors of historic homes. He charged USD $8k and $5 for the jobs, a massive savings for us! I'm not sure what we'll do in 20 years when we'll likely need another round of work and this guy is in his late 80s.

mannykannot 1y ago

Well said, and I suspect that the author's harrowing experience (in the first paragraph) was a preview of what surge pricing would look like in this market, post-Uberization.

gruez 1y ago

>In the world where people have reasonable options, relationships matter and relationships are non-fungible. What type of homeowner hires their plumber/HVAC guy based on "relationships"? They might only need a visit only once in a few years, so the idea of "relationships" is laughable.

doctoring 11mo ago
I mean, I do? As do most of my friends who are homeowners. We are constantly asking each other for recommendations for people who can do X. Hire a couple of disasters, and you will appreciate that a good relationship with a good contractor/tradesperson is worth an incredible amount of money (and time).
verall 11mo ago
I think this is how most homeowners hire this type of people, they either "have a guy" or they ask their friends/neighbors if they "have a guy". I have an HVAC guy who is miles better than the HVAC company with ~50 techs that I had come out before I found him. But if I needed some plumbing work done, I'd ask my neighbors, since I've never gotten plumbing done before. If neither of these they fall back to advertising, door-to-door sales, classifieds, google reviews.
brudgers 11mo ago
The kind of homeowner who pays a reasonable rate to get their AC repaired during a Houston heatwave. The first AC guy at my last house and us had kids in the same third grade classroom. Later when his business changed to commercial work, Charlie put us on to a semi-retired AC guy who kept us running for several years until we moved. By the way, Charlie was recommended by our neighbor two doors down when we moved in.