4 ms·

I don't think this timeline is quite accurate - the 'transgender tipping point' Time magazine cover was in May 2014. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_

by gm678 11mo ago

I don't think this timeline is quite accurate - the 'transgender tipping point' Time magazine cover was in May 2014. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_tipping_point https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_tipping_point

nobodyandproud 11mo ago
Disagree. 2014 was years before it became a mainstream cry to treat trans women as cis women. I didn’t really hear or notice this until the late 2010s. I also believe the trans community hurt itself and its own members by pushing this narrative/falling into this trap, though things like the bathroom bill made it inevitable? Perhaps it’s old fashioned, but what I believe is an acknowledgement and celebration of differences. What the new generation pushed is hiding those differences; by pretending there are none. It’s much harder to argue against “let’s all agree we’re all human and make this work”.
- userbinator 11mo ago
  In the past no one cared about cis or trans because it didn't matter, but they found how it could be used for political leverage to divert attention away from more important things like the actual quality of work.
  - caminante 11mo ago
    It has been co-opted. I think this sub-thread (specific: trans) on Python Foundation's DEI (general) got supercharged with a claim that Hillary would've championed trans rights. To me, she was always very transactional and would've adopted "rainbow capitalism" approaches that optimize branding premiums with little substance. Meanwhile, trans rights have always been a favorite of marxists as an in-direct tool to attack capitalism (nuclear family, property rights, etc.)
    - eefg 11mo ago
      Worse than that, they've been a favorite for men to attack women. It's the most sexist policy for a long time, harking back to an era of misogyny that should have long since been left behind.
  - seethedeaduu 11mo ago
    It mattered for trans people. In the 2010s there was a sort of emancipation for trans people, and you could see them more and more often being openly involved with open source software. It is only natrual to want to turn open source communities to be explicitly accepting.
    - caminante 11mo ago
      The subject is 2010s. Not convinced trans (especially trans women) weren't already over-represented prior as open source allows low barriers to join and anonymity on top of predominantly male (and trans women) + young.
      - seethedeaduu 11mo ago
        I am unsure what you mean by the last sentence. You may not be convinced but I am simply stating my experience. I would be open to proof of the opposite. This is also seen in other open source adjacent communities around the world (eg: hacker conventions)
        caminante 11mo ago
        > In the 2010s there was a sort of emancipation for trans people, and you could see them more and more often being openly involved with open source software It was "your" claim about others and in general ("you could see"), i.e., not mine or your anecdotal awareness. > I would be open to proof of the opposite. It's on you to prove LGBT, especially T, weren't already over-represented (versus typical population) in open source prior to the 2010s.
        seethedeaduu 11mo ago
        It's not on me to do anything actually. And to be frank I am unsure how you expect me to prove such a negative. It was a claim about anecdotal awareness. I am still unsure about what you meant by the last part of your last sentence in your previous post.
- dragonwriter 11mo ago
  > 2014 was years before it became a mainstream cry to treat trans women as cis women. I didn’t really hear or notice this until the late 2010s. That's because somehow you only managed to notice the protests against the rollback of protections by those favoring discrimination but somehow missed the long push for those protections that led up to the federal policy wins (many of which were in 2014, specifically) including: * Executive Order 13672 (explicitly prohibiting discrimination on gender identity or sexual orientation for federal agencies and federal contractors) * Formal DoJ guidance that discrimination on the basis of gender identity was included within the scope of sex discrimination prohibited by Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964—an interpretation later validated by the US Supreme Court in Bostock v. Clayton County, 590 U.S. 644 (2020). * A wide array of regulatory and administrative actions by other federal agencies, mostly applying the same logic as the DoJ guidance referenced above to other existing sex-discrimination provisions in law an regulation.
- abirch 11mo ago
  I'm ignorant of the world outside of the USA. TERF was started in 2008: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TERF_(acronym) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TERF_(acronym) The GOP started to make it a major issue prior in 2016. See Bathroom Bill: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=%22bathroom%20bill%22&hl=en-US https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=%... In 2017 the Southern Poverty Law said that the Christian Right was trying to separate from the T from LGBT. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_views_on_transgender_topics#Relations_with_conservatives https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_views_on_transgender_... The GOP started what is a woman in 2022 https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=%22what%20is%20a%20woman%22&hl=en-US https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=%...
catlover76 11mo ago
[dead]
caminante 11mo ago
Wasn't aware of this term, but this timing (early-mid 2010s) seems right. This was around the time when civic orgs started pulling funding if you disallowed trans kids, and groups started spin-offs to (dis-)allow trans kids.

by gm678 11mo ago

nobodyandproud 11mo ago

Disagree. 2014 was years before it became a mainstream cry to treat trans women as cis women. I didn’t really hear or notice this until the late 2010s. I also believe the trans community hurt itself and its own members by pushing this narrative/falling into this trap, though things like the bathroom bill made it inevitable? Perhaps it’s old fashioned, but what I believe is an acknowledgement and celebration of differences. What the new generation pushed is hiding those differences; by pretending there are none. It’s much harder to argue against “let’s all agree we’re all human and make this work”.

userbinator 11mo ago
In the past no one cared about cis or trans because it didn't matter, but they found how it could be used for political leverage to divert attention away from more important things like the actual quality of work.
- caminante 11mo ago
  It has been co-opted. I think this sub-thread (specific: trans) on Python Foundation's DEI (general) got supercharged with a claim that Hillary would've championed trans rights. To me, she was always very transactional and would've adopted "rainbow capitalism" approaches that optimize branding premiums with little substance. Meanwhile, trans rights have always been a favorite of marxists as an in-direct tool to attack capitalism (nuclear family, property rights, etc.)
  - eefg 11mo ago
    Worse than that, they've been a favorite for men to attack women. It's the most sexist policy for a long time, harking back to an era of misogyny that should have long since been left behind.
- seethedeaduu 11mo ago
  It mattered for trans people. In the 2010s there was a sort of emancipation for trans people, and you could see them more and more often being openly involved with open source software. It is only natrual to want to turn open source communities to be explicitly accepting.
  - caminante 11mo ago
    The subject is 2010s. Not convinced trans (especially trans women) weren't already over-represented prior as open source allows low barriers to join and anonymity on top of predominantly male (and trans women) + young.
    - seethedeaduu 11mo ago
      I am unsure what you mean by the last sentence. You may not be convinced but I am simply stating my experience. I would be open to proof of the opposite. This is also seen in other open source adjacent communities around the world (eg: hacker conventions)
      - caminante 11mo ago
        > In the 2010s there was a sort of emancipation for trans people, and you could see them more and more often being openly involved with open source software It was "your" claim about others and in general ("you could see"), i.e., not mine or your anecdotal awareness. > I would be open to proof of the opposite. It's on you to prove LGBT, especially T, weren't already over-represented (versus typical population) in open source prior to the 2010s.
        seethedeaduu 11mo ago
        It's not on me to do anything actually. And to be frank I am unsure how you expect me to prove such a negative. It was a claim about anecdotal awareness. I am still unsure about what you meant by the last part of your last sentence in your previous post.
dragonwriter 11mo ago
> 2014 was years before it became a mainstream cry to treat trans women as cis women. I didn’t really hear or notice this until the late 2010s. That's because somehow you only managed to notice the protests against the rollback of protections by those favoring discrimination but somehow missed the long push for those protections that led up to the federal policy wins (many of which were in 2014, specifically) including: * Executive Order 13672 (explicitly prohibiting discrimination on gender identity or sexual orientation for federal agencies and federal contractors) * Formal DoJ guidance that discrimination on the basis of gender identity was included within the scope of sex discrimination prohibited by Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964—an interpretation later validated by the US Supreme Court in Bostock v. Clayton County, 590 U.S. 644 (2020). * A wide array of regulatory and administrative actions by other federal agencies, mostly applying the same logic as the DoJ guidance referenced above to other existing sex-discrimination provisions in law an regulation.
abirch 11mo ago
I'm ignorant of the world outside of the USA. TERF was started in 2008: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TERF_(acronym) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TERF_(acronym) The GOP started to make it a major issue prior in 2016. See Bathroom Bill: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=%22bathroom%20bill%22&hl=en-US https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=%... In 2017 the Southern Poverty Law said that the Christian Right was trying to separate from the T from LGBT. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_views_on_transgender_topics#Relations_with_conservatives https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_views_on_transgender_... The GOP started what is a woman in 2022 https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=%22what%20is%20a%20woman%22&hl=en-US https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=%...

catlover76 11mo ago

[dead]

caminante 11mo ago

Wasn't aware of this term, but this timing (early-mid 2010s) seems right. This was around the time when civic orgs started pulling funding if you disallowed trans kids, and groups started spin-offs to (dis-)allow trans kids.