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So you not have extended family or friends in your daily social setting? Like this sounds awesome but being offline for 23 hours in the day is unmanageable her

So you not have extended family or friends in your daily social setting? Like this sounds awesome but being offline for 23 hours in the day is unmanageable here, unless you live a very solitary life.

blueflow 11mo ago
> Like this sounds awesome but being offline for 23 hours in the day is unmanageable here, unless you live a very solitary life Except when you are offline together.
- apexalpha 11mo ago
  Yes, but unfortunately my kids’ daycare, school, other parents, my job don’t want to.
  - lrvick 11mo ago
    If you wanted to be vegan as a personal choice and everyone in your life wanted you to eat meat anyway, who cares? No one gets to decide your lifestyle but you. Make them adapt. You can get landlines (via a VOIP conversion box or otherwise), and beyond that what do you really need if you are honest?
    - dpark 11mo ago
      This is just circular arguing. > it’s not manageable to be offline all the time here > it is if you’re all offline together > but everyone doesn’t want to be offline with me > just be offline by yourself; what’s the big deal? <— you The big deal is all the stuff called out above. My kids school, child care, my work, pizza delivery, everyone has built up infrastructure that assumes virtually always online. If it works for you to just not be online anymore, cool. But it’s not trivial for many people to make this change.
      - lrvick 11mo ago
        I have an active social life, spent years as a sysadmin, co-run two tech companies, have a family, all without a phone. This is not some crazy sci-fi lifestyle experiment I am running for the first time. I just live mostly like all industrialized humans did before 2009.
        dpark 11mo ago
        This is still not an answer to the comment chain. The real answer is “if you want to live this way, you give up a bunch of conveniences and have to deal with it.” It’s less convenient with schools, with childcare, with work, and everything else that assumes always online. > No one gets to decide your lifestyle but you. Make them adapt. Make them adapt is some nonsense. You’ve made multiple comments that through sheer force of will you can make other people align with your choices. You’ve posted zero evidence, or even claimed, that you have succeeded in doing this yourself.
        autoexec 11mo ago
        > “if you want to live this way, you give up a bunch of conveniences and have to deal with it.” You would give up conveniences, but you'd be giving up inconveniences as well. It's a trade off that works extremely well for some people who are often surprised by how little effort it takes and how much happier and healthier they are. I doubt it's for everybody, but even then there are a lot of half-measures people can take to reduce the amount harm their cell phones are causing them and improve their lives.
        lrvick 11mo ago
        Everything I "give up" gives me so much more back. Now on the outside looking in, it feels like everyone criticizing me for not letting robots lift weights for me at the gym, because everyone else does it that way. I choose what to think about most of the time instead of letting a pocket rectangle decide for me. Plenty of evidence suggests this is good for our brains. Everyone else seems as absurd to me as I probably seem to them. If anything I feel like I am having to constantly accommodate phone addicts that have incredibly short attention spans. Few in my social or professional life can keep up with my productivity, which I largely attribute to having the ability to focus and think without distraction for hours at a time which most people struggle to do these days without reaching for a phone. I can never even get through a meal with most friends without them checking social media several times. With more than a few world firsts in engineering under my belt in the years since I gave up my phone, people tend to accept my "unusual" lifestyle choice of not being reachable every second of every day. Not everyone aligns, and that is fine, just as not every restaurant provides vegan options. Sometimes I have to go to a different restaurant that has paper menus and accepts cash, or a different clinic because I lack a Google or Apple account, but their loss of business and not a big deal for me given all the major privacy and productivity gains I get. There are -always- alternatives and I have never been unable to accomplish a goal or do something I wanted to do because of not having a smartphone. By all means give me a gotcha. I have heard them all and navigated around them without too much trouble.
testing22321 11mo ago
I also have no phone. I have tons of friends and a very active social life - in person. I bump into friends in town, at the ski hill, at the bar and grocery store. I ask people for the time, directions and how their day is going. I’ll never have a phone.
- apexalpha 11mo ago
  Okay but what if daycare needs you to pick up your kid? People expect to be able to reach you…
  - SoftTalker 11mo ago
    We managed these problems before everyone had a mobile phone.
    - jodrellblank 11mo ago
      "What if you get an infection?" SoftTalker: "We managed healthcare before antibiotics, antiseptics, germ theory, sterilisation. Hah, gotcha."
      - DangitBobby 11mo ago
        That's why I make sure my kid is chained to my side 24/7, you never know what could happen. This contact-ability panic is fucking ridiculous.
    - watwut 11mo ago
      Back them, they did called you to work and it was customary to rely message by two other people. There is no such desk anymore and they dont want to be handling your life. And if your kid needed to go home and sleep in bed, you had to take the day off instead of home office. There was price to that. Oh, and back then school did not expected parents and kids to have phones, now it does. Information about schedule changes, homework, what needs to be paid and such is broadcasted with the assumption that everyone has a phone.
31337Logic 11mo ago
It saddens me that this is a real thought of yours. You just need a bit of creativity and trust, my friend. Something it seems people are lacking these days... likely due to the very thing we are discussing now: smartphone addiction! As has already been pointed out to you here before, these social moves you fear are awkward or impossible were EASILY handled by generations before you... and all without cellphones. Go figure.
lrvick 11mo ago
I live in silicon valley, have an active social life, travel frequently, have a family I spend time with every day, and am co-running two tech companies. People did all of these things before smartphones and all those methods still work just fine today.

So you not have extended family or friends in your daily social setting? Like this sounds awesome but being offline for 23 hours in the day is unmanageable here, unless you live a very solitary life.

blueflow 11mo ago

> Like this sounds awesome but being offline for 23 hours in the day is unmanageable here, unless you live a very solitary life Except when you are offline together.

apexalpha 11mo ago
Yes, but unfortunately my kids’ daycare, school, other parents, my job don’t want to.
- lrvick 11mo ago
  If you wanted to be vegan as a personal choice and everyone in your life wanted you to eat meat anyway, who cares? No one gets to decide your lifestyle but you. Make them adapt. You can get landlines (via a VOIP conversion box or otherwise), and beyond that what do you really need if you are honest?
  - dpark 11mo ago
    This is just circular arguing. > it’s not manageable to be offline all the time here > it is if you’re all offline together > but everyone doesn’t want to be offline with me > just be offline by yourself; what’s the big deal? <— you The big deal is all the stuff called out above. My kids school, child care, my work, pizza delivery, everyone has built up infrastructure that assumes virtually always online. If it works for you to just not be online anymore, cool. But it’s not trivial for many people to make this change.
    - lrvick 11mo ago
      I have an active social life, spent years as a sysadmin, co-run two tech companies, have a family, all without a phone. This is not some crazy sci-fi lifestyle experiment I am running for the first time. I just live mostly like all industrialized humans did before 2009.
      - dpark 11mo ago
        This is still not an answer to the comment chain. The real answer is “if you want to live this way, you give up a bunch of conveniences and have to deal with it.” It’s less convenient with schools, with childcare, with work, and everything else that assumes always online. > No one gets to decide your lifestyle but you. Make them adapt. Make them adapt is some nonsense. You’ve made multiple comments that through sheer force of will you can make other people align with your choices. You’ve posted zero evidence, or even claimed, that you have succeeded in doing this yourself.
        autoexec 11mo ago
        > “if you want to live this way, you give up a bunch of conveniences and have to deal with it.” You would give up conveniences, but you'd be giving up inconveniences as well. It's a trade off that works extremely well for some people who are often surprised by how little effort it takes and how much happier and healthier they are. I doubt it's for everybody, but even then there are a lot of half-measures people can take to reduce the amount harm their cell phones are causing them and improve their lives.
        lrvick 11mo ago
        Everything I "give up" gives me so much more back. Now on the outside looking in, it feels like everyone criticizing me for not letting robots lift weights for me at the gym, because everyone else does it that way. I choose what to think about most of the time instead of letting a pocket rectangle decide for me. Plenty of evidence suggests this is good for our brains. Everyone else seems as absurd to me as I probably seem to them. If anything I feel like I am having to constantly accommodate phone addicts that have incredibly short attention spans. Few in my social or professional life can keep up with my productivity, which I largely attribute to having the ability to focus and think without distraction for hours at a time which most people struggle to do these days without reaching for a phone. I can never even get through a meal with most friends without them checking social media several times. With more than a few world firsts in engineering under my belt in the years since I gave up my phone, people tend to accept my "unusual" lifestyle choice of not being reachable every second of every day. Not everyone aligns, and that is fine, just as not every restaurant provides vegan options. Sometimes I have to go to a different restaurant that has paper menus and accepts cash, or a different clinic because I lack a Google or Apple account, but their loss of business and not a big deal for me given all the major privacy and productivity gains I get. There are -always- alternatives and I have never been unable to accomplish a goal or do something I wanted to do because of not having a smartphone. By all means give me a gotcha. I have heard them all and navigated around them without too much trouble.

testing22321 11mo ago

I also have no phone. I have tons of friends and a very active social life - in person. I bump into friends in town, at the ski hill, at the bar and grocery store. I ask people for the time, directions and how their day is going. I’ll never have a phone.

apexalpha 11mo ago
Okay but what if daycare needs you to pick up your kid? People expect to be able to reach you…
- SoftTalker 11mo ago
  We managed these problems before everyone had a mobile phone.
  - jodrellblank 11mo ago
    "What if you get an infection?" SoftTalker: "We managed healthcare before antibiotics, antiseptics, germ theory, sterilisation. Hah, gotcha."
    - DangitBobby 11mo ago
      That's why I make sure my kid is chained to my side 24/7, you never know what could happen. This contact-ability panic is fucking ridiculous.
  - watwut 11mo ago
    Back them, they did called you to work and it was customary to rely message by two other people. There is no such desk anymore and they dont want to be handling your life. And if your kid needed to go home and sleep in bed, you had to take the day off instead of home office. There was price to that. Oh, and back then school did not expected parents and kids to have phones, now it does. Information about schedule changes, homework, what needs to be paid and such is broadcasted with the assumption that everyone has a phone.

31337Logic 11mo ago

It saddens me that this is a real thought of yours. You just need a bit of creativity and trust, my friend. Something it seems people are lacking these days... likely due to the very thing we are discussing now: smartphone addiction! As has already been pointed out to you here before, these social moves you fear are awkward or impossible were EASILY handled by generations before you... and all without cellphones. Go figure.

lrvick 11mo ago

I live in silicon valley, have an active social life, travel frequently, have a family I spend time with every day, and am co-running two tech companies. People did all of these things before smartphones and all those methods still work just fine today.