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Unfortunately, I wish it were that easy. But in reality, criminalizing certain speech does not suppress it or prevent people from holding those opinions. Björn

Unfortunately, I wish it were that easy. But in reality, criminalizing certain speech does not suppress it or prevent people from holding those opinions. Björn Höcke, the leader of Germany’s far right AfD party, was convicted of using Nazi slogans, and Germany has very clear laws preventing Nazi speech. And yet, AfD is now the country’s 2nd most powerful party. Sadly, criminalizing bad speech does not change the minds of those who hold those opinions, nor prevent their spread.

danaris 1y ago
"In this one specific case, convicting this one specific person didn't destroy the whole movement." Well, no; because they haven't gotten together the political will to outlaw AfD itself as a Nazi party. This doesn't show that banning the speech doesn't work; if anything, it shows that being overly tolerant of Nazis...lets the Nazis stay around.
- Esophagus4 1y ago
  I’m not convinced we can legislate morality. If anything, outlawing it may increase its credibility as an anti-establishment movement.
  - bofadeez 1y ago
    Clearly
  - danaris 1y ago
    > I’m not convinced we can legislate morality. I've never understood this argument in the least. We legislate morality all the time. Slightly less so these days, with the reduction of laws against things like same-sex marriage, miscegenation, and such, but what do you think laws against murder, theft, and fraud are? "That's not legislating morality!" you say. "Those are there to prevent real harms, or damage to society!" Well, so are laws against hate speech. They cause real, measurable harm to the people they are targeted at. The damage they do to society you can see all around you right now. Our laws and our morals have always been inextricably entangled. It seems to me that people who make that argument just think that the things they say it about (like hate speech) shouldn't be considered immoral.
    - bofadeez 1y ago
      Free speech is inalienable, it does not originate from majority opinion.

danaris 1y ago

"In this one specific case, convicting this one specific person didn't destroy the whole movement." Well, no; because they haven't gotten together the political will to outlaw AfD itself as a Nazi party. This doesn't show that banning the speech doesn't work; if anything, it shows that being overly tolerant of Nazis...lets the Nazis stay around.

Esophagus4 1y ago
I’m not convinced we can legislate morality. If anything, outlawing it may increase its credibility as an anti-establishment movement.
- bofadeez 1y ago
  Clearly
- danaris 1y ago
  > I’m not convinced we can legislate morality. I've never understood this argument in the least. We legislate morality all the time. Slightly less so these days, with the reduction of laws against things like same-sex marriage, miscegenation, and such, but what do you think laws against murder, theft, and fraud are? "That's not legislating morality!" you say. "Those are there to prevent real harms, or damage to society!" Well, so are laws against hate speech. They cause real, measurable harm to the people they are targeted at. The damage they do to society you can see all around you right now. Our laws and our morals have always been inextricably entangled. It seems to me that people who make that argument just think that the things they say it about (like hate speech) shouldn't be considered immoral.
  - bofadeez 1y ago
    Free speech is inalienable, it does not originate from majority opinion.