6 ms·

My kids loved the power, freedom and later unexpected community this bought them. I think it is also important to realize/point out that we do a lot of project

My kids loved the power, freedom and later unexpected community this bought them. I think it is also important to realize/point out that we do a lot of projecting and our child may have very different interests. Not saying that applies to you evolve2k, just wanted to make the general point. I set up a Linux machine with our daughter and while it was initially ok, she did not have much interest in the power/freedom and it only became a nuisance for her. Her school/friends use PowerPoint - there is a lot of friction trying work with them in LibreOffice. She wanted to do DTP-like things several times and the Linux options are not exactly... user-friendly. Etc. In the end we got her a Mac Mini. She can still open a terminal, use Homebrew, etc. if she ever develops an interest. Heck, she can use most free software. However, she can also do the stuff she is currently interested in much more easily. E.g., she uses Swift Publisher, which is a very simple/user-friendly DTP program, can collaborate on PowerPoint presentations when needed, etc. First and foremost listen to what your child is interested in.

evolve2k 1y ago
Very fair. Yes you can’t force them but I still think there is value in attempting to start the Linux way which you very much did. Sounds like you’re doing a great job and tuning in to the needs and interests of your child. Love it!
rpdillon 1y ago
> she did not have much interest in the power/freedom The reason I started with Linux with my kids is so they were aware that that power and freedom exists. Kids that grow up in a mobile ecosystem (and increasingly both the Microsoft and Apple ecosystems) are fundamentally disempowered, just as the adults that use that ecosystem are. The goal of having my kids use Linux was to make them understand that they did have agency. Fifteen years on, I have to say it was an excellent decision. They're light years ahead of their peers in terms of their ability to use computers.
- eptcyka 1y ago
  When forced to use Linux at an early age, I was given the agency to be made fun of and miss out on social things, i.e. discussing currently relevant games. It got me the jobs and knowledge eventually too, but I really did not learn much from blindly running ./configure and make and make install. I shudder to think exactly how my wine installation worked. There are significant downsides to using Linux and the freedom it brings needs lots of context to appreciate. If you don’t provide the context, Linux is not empowering- it is just a windows that works less.
  - rpdillon 1y ago
    > discussing currently relevant games We shun most of this as faddish and low quality. Fortnite and Battlefield are replaced with OpenMW and Veloran. If you're doing things blindly in Linux, there's no point. The value is in understanding and leveraging that understanding to achieve your goals. In many ways, this isn't about Linux at all. It's about parenting.
    - eptcyka 1y ago
      At the time it was a GTA title. Regardless, the Linux alternatives are useless, there is no alternative to the socially agreed upon phenomena, the child can either participate pr they cannot. The exclusion is not necessarily a bad thing, but you end up having the child swim upstream a bit.
      - em-bee 1y ago
        that's fair. unfortunately windows has changed so much since that time that the downsides of allowing kids to use it are much worse now than they were even 10 years ago.
      - coffeebeqn 1y ago
        That’s not really the case in 2025. Proton is very good
      - testdelacc1 1y ago
        All games run on Linux in 2025 except multiplayer titles that want to install kernel level anti cheat.
- fullstop 1y ago
  My kids were exposed to many operating systems at a young age, and you couldn't be more right regarding the mobile ecosystem. There's a lot of highschool aged kids who don't understand directories on a file system. They're used to tapping "open" and being presented with a list of files sandboxed in that environment.
  - xnyan 1y ago
    The situation you describing is the norm for everyone, including you, for most subjects. Expertise gives you greater understanding and allows for more meaningful engagement with the subject, but most people are experts very few things. When I "dance" (sway to the beat) at a wedding, I am doing the equivalent of tapping open on the file, whereas my parter with their lifetime of dance experience can move with a level of skill that is much more meaningful and nuanced. My best friend is a chef, his daughter has a vasty deeper awareness of flavor and technique vs most kids (including mine) who are just consuming without much thought. The same goes for my colleague who is also a musician and DJ - their kids can hear a song and instantly understand all the layers of production and instrumentation, whereas most children and adults are just nodding along to the beat. If I consider most of the things I do in my life, I am interacting with them at very shallow and superficial level versus an expert, and I would assume the same is true for you.
    - fullstop 1y ago
      I totally agree about expertise in a given domain. With that being said, I would consider navigating a directory tree below the level of swaying to the beat. I'm not expecting them to get into the nitty gritty about page alignment and DMA transfers. A directory tree is more on level with toe tapping.
      - Gerard0 1y ago
        Hee hee, great response to a great response!
      - Imustaskforhelp 1y ago
        Personally I always loved computers more than smartphones and really loved the freedom even windows could provide over something like android (in the sense of its interface etc.) I feel that a lot of people my age spend a lot more time on their phones as compared to computers and maybe even using the computer just for gaming or discord or something else (just click open, the games are there in steam, play run, it runs) I feel like it is partially tech's fault as well. Tech really wants us to not interact with things or to create a superapp to abstract everything to get a bigger portion of the cake I personally wouldn't be surprised if with things like AI browsers, we might be coming to the point where they genuinely just convert the whole internet into just a chatbot and would interact with the computer and everything on your behalf in the same interface (most likely) I am pretty sure that if this interface or something similar comes true then most people might not even know about things like www. or internet links in general, and we might be shocked in the same way we are right now to them not knowing what files are.
- supriyo-biswas 1y ago
  When I was a teenager, I tried to dabble in Linux but the hardware support was abysmal and I couldn't use it, despite my strong intention to permanently switch to Linux. These days the hardware support is usually fine and my employer requires me to use Linux on the desktop, but still, if I was a teenager I'd still be interested in games, a functional office suite, etc. For my Linux hobby at the time, I ended up doing was installing MinGW on Windows XP and using Linux VMs on Windows, albeit I had an interest in that kind of stuff. I don't think forcing people to daily drive Linux for the usual stuff makes much sense unless they want it and have an interest in low level configuration.
- hastamelo 1y ago
  for many kids TikTok is power, not a terminal
- graemep 1y ago
  My experience is similar, although my kids are are a bit older (the younger one is 17). There have been issues, mostly with gaming. On the other hand they are happy with the results in retrospect. I just got the 17 year old a laptop with Windows 11 on it she wants Linux installed on it.
- ulfw 1y ago
  What 'freedom' won't they have on a Mac or Windows computer which could run all their friend's software and/or games?
  - tapoxi 1y ago
    Linux can run significantly more games than a Mac at this point. It can run maybe 95% of Windows games without tweaking, it only chokes on games with kernel level anti-cheat. Compared to Windows, freedom from advertising and making your own decisions. Windows has so many dark patterns both out of the box and magically introduced with subsequent updates.
  - rpdillon 1y ago
    A linux machine works for its owner. A MacOS machine works for Apple, and a Windows machine works for Microsoft. The difference is rooted in control. Unfortunately, we have an entire generation raised on the idea that they shouldn't have ultimate decision making authority over a device they paid $1000 for. It's bonkers, in my opinion.
- markus_zhang 1y ago
  Can you please elaborate on this? I have a five years old so it’s still early, but I want to prepare myself to educate him on starting from Linux. Do you use any special setup or go straight to Linux with them? Did they have frustrations using the cli and how did you encourage them? Did they ever want to give up?
Aurornis 1y ago
> there is a lot of friction trying work with them in LibreOffice LibreOffice is always a sticking point, in my experience. I some times get roasted for saying it, but if you want people to have a good experience with Linux, point them toward something online like Google Docs. Yeah it’s not consistent with the ideological purity that some people want, but in my experience non-technical people do much better on Linux when they don’t have to deal with LibreOffice. I won’t even speculate why, it’s just not a good fit for non-technical Linux newcomers.
- charlie-83 1y ago
  Out of interest, what's your issue with LibreOffice? The only issue I have with it is when you need to open documents made in MSOffice. Otherwise, it does everything MSOffice does and faster with less cloud/AI crap. Reminds me of MSOffice during XP era when it just worked.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - Aurornis 1y ago
    > what's your issue with LibreOffice? I'm sharing observations about seeing other people, including casual computer users, forced into using LibreOffice. It becomes the software experience they hate the most. They associate Linux with LibreOffice and want it all gone so they can go back to getting work done on mac or Windows like everyone else they know. Your comment is a good example of the disconnect between average computer users and the LibreOffice fans: > The only issue I have with it is when you need to open documents made in MSOffice. Otherwise, it does everything MSOffice does and faster with less cloud/AI crap. Reminds me of MSOffice during XP era Collaborating with other MS Office users is a key part of many people's jobs. Having poor MS Office compatibility isn't just a footnote, it's a showstopper issue that will make these people's jobs harder every single day. Making people's job harder and take more time is a great way to make them hate something. As for not having cloud features and having an old style XP era interface: These are also points that are only positive for a specific type of computer user wants computing to return the earlier, simpler era of computing they fondly remember. For everyone else, that "cloud crap" is a helpful feature for getting their job done and that XP era interface makes it feel like they're stuck using outdated software. I understand you don't use or like the new features, but average people who use this software in their jobs might actually benefit from the new features and new interface.
sssilver 1y ago
> First and foremost listen to what your child is interested in A child can only ever have interest in things he or she has been exposed to. A good environment will expose them to many different things, expanding their menu of interest options.
hamdingers 1y ago
> Her school/friends use PowerPoint I'm amazed parents are still paying for MS office licenses... Google Docs had completely taken over my college in the late 2000s and has been the standard at all the companies I've worked at since then. Plus I thought Chromebooks were pretty standard in schools now. What's pushing parents towards a paid product over a free one that works better for a student use case?
- Aurornis 1y ago
  > What's pushing parents towards a paid product over a free one that works better for a student use case? Office 365 is free for students and has the same collaboration features you’re describing.
  - hamdingers 1y ago
    Do they no longer require a school email address with a school part of Microsoft's program? Are middle schools handing out .edu emails now? Edit: a web search confirms that they still have those requirements so I remain confused
TacticalCoder 1y ago
[dead]
tayo42 1y ago
You can do this on windows with wsl now too and have a more hackable machine that could dual boot in the future if wsl doesn't cut it
bossyTeacher 1y ago
This. Thank you. Parents tend to project a lot of their fears and desires into their child. Your child is not you and will never be. They are their own person with their own interests. It's fine showing them your interests but forcing them on the child is not. A lot of nerd parents believe their kids like nerding like they do even when it's not true. Listen without judgement and be willing to install Windows if they want it rather than judging them for not wanting Linux or not caring about the command line or whatever programming language you are trying to force on them. You are a parent first. Nerd second.
NedF 1y ago
[dead]
1718627440 1y ago
> She wanted to do DTP-like things several times and the Linux options are not exactly... user-friendly. Etc. What's wrong with Scribus?
- tlhunter 1y ago
  Simple things are painful in Scribus, like adding an image.
  - 1718627440 1y ago
    Not my experience, when learning it as a child. Everything is a box, and you just draw a box and tell it, what to put in there. That's a thing 10-year-old me could understand.
amypetrik8 1y ago
My daughter also had the same - she was really keen on DTP-like things and DTP programs. Well, not just DTP programs, she liked ZTP and MTP tier programs -- she didn't like TTP programs per se, but quasi TTP was more her speed
Imustaskforhelp 1y ago
I sometimes used to make estimates of construction projects for my uncle since he wasn't a technical guy. I am a teen and so when I had made the switch from windows -> linux, he was a little weirded out and I tried to do things in libreoffice but he just genuinely thought it was excel itself and he was trying to use his old experience for some niche thing and I was trying mine to figure out libreoffice etc. Um, it was decent, I still use libreoffice but at that time, I just decided to open up google sheets (iirc) and just use google sheets for excel purposes and I think that later he even preferred it since he could then go to someone else and have them open up that excel as well We never had collaboration on powerpoint presentations or etc., our school work was basically build a presentation and mail it I live in the east tho so I am not sure how the western world's schooling system is entrenched in powerpoints collaboration etc. I don't like google generally but atleast their suite is in the web and so I can naturally use it in linux as well without any limitations unlike the web versions of microsoft's monopolistic suite of softwares. That being said, I am still on mac which my brother gifted me partially because I only have a computer and sometimes I like the portability of a laptop but I genuinely feel annoyed or I do feel limited by what I can do on mac. Yes I have installed homebrew etc. but linux actually feels more comfy for me to use to be honest, I think I like both but I personally prefer linux more as well. I would recommend if possible to try to buy them something like a old laptop and boot them linux as well to try to teach them your knowledge and try to bond with them. There is just this instant sense of gratification I get when I realize that my pc is mostly open source and it has even gotten to the points of being reproducible and bootstrappable so somebody would technically be able to even re-architect or (myself) as well the way I use my computers in this open source manner. All of the things open source.. Wild. I personally have starred a lot of projects along the way I have found and I am pretty sure that some of these projects could genuinely be useful to people. I am sure you know some really cool open source projects as well and maybe you can share these softwares which can help them in the process as well. I have found it extremely surprising in how many things can be done by already built open source softwares. It is not as if I don't use proprietory software, I think there are some trade-offs to be made I decided to use obsidian partially because I found it to have a better plugin system than logseq (? sorry if this isn't the correct name) and I really like the excalidraw plugin in obsidian.
kldg 1y ago
this is the line of thinking which led me to furnish daughter with Windows laptops and, later, desktops; I remove the adware & spyware to some degree, but Windows (and I assume Mac, but I'm not in that space) has the benefit of generally being reasonably intuitive for basic use WITHOUT A CHEAT SHEET and, importantly, fast and easy to teach intermediate use of. if she wants to know how to enable literal (that is, correct) filename sorting in File Explorer or write an HID driver, I'll be here. + I sure don't feel like debugging every strange artifact appearing in Steam games as a result of emulation. one thing I have protested, to the point of being obnoxious, is school-managed Chromebooks. I've talked to every principal of every school she's been in since Covid-19 to persistently request I be allowed to furnish a Windows laptop or at least a Chromebook I manage. -and in a bit of a surprise to me, everyone's been accommodating (though never to let her use a Windows laptop; I think maybe providing it as an option makes breaking policy to let her bring a self-managed Chromebook seem reasonable). I argue I operate web services with user information at home and don't want school employees on my network, and I don't want the financial liability of her accidentally damaging school property.
korse 1y ago
I think you're taking this too far. First off, limiting screen time and access to feeds while making sure kids are socialized is generally a good thing regardless of where they decide to go in life. Computers that make things a bit 'harder' help stave off mindless consumption of content without being oppressive. Arguably you could just put your kids in a high-end private school with other well socialized children who have had significant sums of money invested in their development and haven't even been pacified with tech out of parental laziness/necessity but hey, whatever works... Secondly, providing a linux based computer or old windows as an intro to technology has one very basic benefit. It teaches mindful interaction with technology. These things are tools. Regardless of how hard many companies try, computers (smartphone, tablet or desktop) remain machines that do exactly what we ask them when you ask them to do it and internalizing this at a young age builds stronger humans.

evolve2k 1y ago

Very fair. Yes you can’t force them but I still think there is value in attempting to start the Linux way which you very much did. Sounds like you’re doing a great job and tuning in to the needs and interests of your child. Love it!

rpdillon 1y ago

> she did not have much interest in the power/freedom The reason I started with Linux with my kids is so they were aware that that power and freedom exists. Kids that grow up in a mobile ecosystem (and increasingly both the Microsoft and Apple ecosystems) are fundamentally disempowered, just as the adults that use that ecosystem are. The goal of having my kids use Linux was to make them understand that they did have agency. Fifteen years on, I have to say it was an excellent decision. They're light years ahead of their peers in terms of their ability to use computers.

eptcyka 1y ago
When forced to use Linux at an early age, I was given the agency to be made fun of and miss out on social things, i.e. discussing currently relevant games. It got me the jobs and knowledge eventually too, but I really did not learn much from blindly running ./configure and make and make install. I shudder to think exactly how my wine installation worked. There are significant downsides to using Linux and the freedom it brings needs lots of context to appreciate. If you don’t provide the context, Linux is not empowering- it is just a windows that works less.
- rpdillon 1y ago
  > discussing currently relevant games We shun most of this as faddish and low quality. Fortnite and Battlefield are replaced with OpenMW and Veloran. If you're doing things blindly in Linux, there's no point. The value is in understanding and leveraging that understanding to achieve your goals. In many ways, this isn't about Linux at all. It's about parenting.
  - eptcyka 1y ago
    At the time it was a GTA title. Regardless, the Linux alternatives are useless, there is no alternative to the socially agreed upon phenomena, the child can either participate pr they cannot. The exclusion is not necessarily a bad thing, but you end up having the child swim upstream a bit.
    - em-bee 1y ago
      that's fair. unfortunately windows has changed so much since that time that the downsides of allowing kids to use it are much worse now than they were even 10 years ago.
    - coffeebeqn 1y ago
      That’s not really the case in 2025. Proton is very good
    - testdelacc1 1y ago
      All games run on Linux in 2025 except multiplayer titles that want to install kernel level anti cheat.
fullstop 1y ago
My kids were exposed to many operating systems at a young age, and you couldn't be more right regarding the mobile ecosystem. There's a lot of highschool aged kids who don't understand directories on a file system. They're used to tapping "open" and being presented with a list of files sandboxed in that environment.
- xnyan 1y ago
  The situation you describing is the norm for everyone, including you, for most subjects. Expertise gives you greater understanding and allows for more meaningful engagement with the subject, but most people are experts very few things. When I "dance" (sway to the beat) at a wedding, I am doing the equivalent of tapping open on the file, whereas my parter with their lifetime of dance experience can move with a level of skill that is much more meaningful and nuanced. My best friend is a chef, his daughter has a vasty deeper awareness of flavor and technique vs most kids (including mine) who are just consuming without much thought. The same goes for my colleague who is also a musician and DJ - their kids can hear a song and instantly understand all the layers of production and instrumentation, whereas most children and adults are just nodding along to the beat. If I consider most of the things I do in my life, I am interacting with them at very shallow and superficial level versus an expert, and I would assume the same is true for you.
  - fullstop 1y ago
    I totally agree about expertise in a given domain. With that being said, I would consider navigating a directory tree below the level of swaying to the beat. I'm not expecting them to get into the nitty gritty about page alignment and DMA transfers. A directory tree is more on level with toe tapping.
    - Gerard0 1y ago
      Hee hee, great response to a great response!
    - Imustaskforhelp 1y ago
      Personally I always loved computers more than smartphones and really loved the freedom even windows could provide over something like android (in the sense of its interface etc.) I feel that a lot of people my age spend a lot more time on their phones as compared to computers and maybe even using the computer just for gaming or discord or something else (just click open, the games are there in steam, play run, it runs) I feel like it is partially tech's fault as well. Tech really wants us to not interact with things or to create a superapp to abstract everything to get a bigger portion of the cake I personally wouldn't be surprised if with things like AI browsers, we might be coming to the point where they genuinely just convert the whole internet into just a chatbot and would interact with the computer and everything on your behalf in the same interface (most likely) I am pretty sure that if this interface or something similar comes true then most people might not even know about things like www. or internet links in general, and we might be shocked in the same way we are right now to them not knowing what files are.
supriyo-biswas 1y ago
When I was a teenager, I tried to dabble in Linux but the hardware support was abysmal and I couldn't use it, despite my strong intention to permanently switch to Linux. These days the hardware support is usually fine and my employer requires me to use Linux on the desktop, but still, if I was a teenager I'd still be interested in games, a functional office suite, etc. For my Linux hobby at the time, I ended up doing was installing MinGW on Windows XP and using Linux VMs on Windows, albeit I had an interest in that kind of stuff. I don't think forcing people to daily drive Linux for the usual stuff makes much sense unless they want it and have an interest in low level configuration.
hastamelo 1y ago
for many kids TikTok is power, not a terminal
graemep 1y ago
My experience is similar, although my kids are are a bit older (the younger one is 17). There have been issues, mostly with gaming. On the other hand they are happy with the results in retrospect. I just got the 17 year old a laptop with Windows 11 on it she wants Linux installed on it.
ulfw 1y ago
What 'freedom' won't they have on a Mac or Windows computer which could run all their friend's software and/or games?
- tapoxi 1y ago
  Linux can run significantly more games than a Mac at this point. It can run maybe 95% of Windows games without tweaking, it only chokes on games with kernel level anti-cheat. Compared to Windows, freedom from advertising and making your own decisions. Windows has so many dark patterns both out of the box and magically introduced with subsequent updates.
- rpdillon 1y ago
  A linux machine works for its owner. A MacOS machine works for Apple, and a Windows machine works for Microsoft. The difference is rooted in control. Unfortunately, we have an entire generation raised on the idea that they shouldn't have ultimate decision making authority over a device they paid $1000 for. It's bonkers, in my opinion.
markus_zhang 1y ago
Can you please elaborate on this? I have a five years old so it’s still early, but I want to prepare myself to educate him on starting from Linux. Do you use any special setup or go straight to Linux with them? Did they have frustrations using the cli and how did you encourage them? Did they ever want to give up?

Aurornis 1y ago

> there is a lot of friction trying work with them in LibreOffice LibreOffice is always a sticking point, in my experience. I some times get roasted for saying it, but if you want people to have a good experience with Linux, point them toward something online like Google Docs. Yeah it’s not consistent with the ideological purity that some people want, but in my experience non-technical people do much better on Linux when they don’t have to deal with LibreOffice. I won’t even speculate why, it’s just not a good fit for non-technical Linux newcomers.

charlie-83 1y ago
Out of interest, what's your issue with LibreOffice? The only issue I have with it is when you need to open documents made in MSOffice. Otherwise, it does everything MSOffice does and faster with less cloud/AI crap. Reminds me of MSOffice during XP era when it just worked.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- Aurornis 1y ago
  > what's your issue with LibreOffice? I'm sharing observations about seeing other people, including casual computer users, forced into using LibreOffice. It becomes the software experience they hate the most. They associate Linux with LibreOffice and want it all gone so they can go back to getting work done on mac or Windows like everyone else they know. Your comment is a good example of the disconnect between average computer users and the LibreOffice fans: > The only issue I have with it is when you need to open documents made in MSOffice. Otherwise, it does everything MSOffice does and faster with less cloud/AI crap. Reminds me of MSOffice during XP era Collaborating with other MS Office users is a key part of many people's jobs. Having poor MS Office compatibility isn't just a footnote, it's a showstopper issue that will make these people's jobs harder every single day. Making people's job harder and take more time is a great way to make them hate something. As for not having cloud features and having an old style XP era interface: These are also points that are only positive for a specific type of computer user wants computing to return the earlier, simpler era of computing they fondly remember. For everyone else, that "cloud crap" is a helpful feature for getting their job done and that XP era interface makes it feel like they're stuck using outdated software. I understand you don't use or like the new features, but average people who use this software in their jobs might actually benefit from the new features and new interface.

sssilver 1y ago

> First and foremost listen to what your child is interested in A child can only ever have interest in things he or she has been exposed to. A good environment will expose them to many different things, expanding their menu of interest options.

hamdingers 1y ago

> Her school/friends use PowerPoint I'm amazed parents are still paying for MS office licenses... Google Docs had completely taken over my college in the late 2000s and has been the standard at all the companies I've worked at since then. Plus I thought Chromebooks were pretty standard in schools now. What's pushing parents towards a paid product over a free one that works better for a student use case?

Aurornis 1y ago
> What's pushing parents towards a paid product over a free one that works better for a student use case? Office 365 is free for students and has the same collaboration features you’re describing.
- hamdingers 1y ago
  Do they no longer require a school email address with a school part of Microsoft's program? Are middle schools handing out .edu emails now? Edit: a web search confirms that they still have those requirements so I remain confused

TacticalCoder 1y ago

[dead]

tayo42 1y ago

You can do this on windows with wsl now too and have a more hackable machine that could dual boot in the future if wsl doesn't cut it

bossyTeacher 1y ago

This. Thank you. Parents tend to project a lot of their fears and desires into their child. Your child is not you and will never be. They are their own person with their own interests. It's fine showing them your interests but forcing them on the child is not. A lot of nerd parents believe their kids like nerding like they do even when it's not true. Listen without judgement and be willing to install Windows if they want it rather than judging them for not wanting Linux or not caring about the command line or whatever programming language you are trying to force on them. You are a parent first. Nerd second.

NedF 1y ago

[dead]

1718627440 1y ago

> She wanted to do DTP-like things several times and the Linux options are not exactly... user-friendly. Etc. What's wrong with Scribus?

tlhunter 1y ago
Simple things are painful in Scribus, like adding an image.
- 1718627440 1y ago
  Not my experience, when learning it as a child. Everything is a box, and you just draw a box and tell it, what to put in there. That's a thing 10-year-old me could understand.

amypetrik8 1y ago

My daughter also had the same - she was really keen on DTP-like things and DTP programs. Well, not just DTP programs, she liked ZTP and MTP tier programs -- she didn't like TTP programs per se, but quasi TTP was more her speed

Imustaskforhelp 1y ago

I sometimes used to make estimates of construction projects for my uncle since he wasn't a technical guy. I am a teen and so when I had made the switch from windows -> linux, he was a little weirded out and I tried to do things in libreoffice but he just genuinely thought it was excel itself and he was trying to use his old experience for some niche thing and I was trying mine to figure out libreoffice etc. Um, it was decent, I still use libreoffice but at that time, I just decided to open up google sheets (iirc) and just use google sheets for excel purposes and I think that later he even preferred it since he could then go to someone else and have them open up that excel as well We never had collaboration on powerpoint presentations or etc., our school work was basically build a presentation and mail it I live in the east tho so I am not sure how the western world's schooling system is entrenched in powerpoints collaboration etc. I don't like google generally but atleast their suite is in the web and so I can naturally use it in linux as well without any limitations unlike the web versions of microsoft's monopolistic suite of softwares. That being said, I am still on mac which my brother gifted me partially because I only have a computer and sometimes I like the portability of a laptop but I genuinely feel annoyed or I do feel limited by what I can do on mac. Yes I have installed homebrew etc. but linux actually feels more comfy for me to use to be honest, I think I like both but I personally prefer linux more as well. I would recommend if possible to try to buy them something like a old laptop and boot them linux as well to try to teach them your knowledge and try to bond with them. There is just this instant sense of gratification I get when I realize that my pc is mostly open source and it has even gotten to the points of being reproducible and bootstrappable so somebody would technically be able to even re-architect or (myself) as well the way I use my computers in this open source manner. All of the things open source.. Wild. I personally have starred a lot of projects along the way I have found and I am pretty sure that some of these projects could genuinely be useful to people. I am sure you know some really cool open source projects as well and maybe you can share these softwares which can help them in the process as well. I have found it extremely surprising in how many things can be done by already built open source softwares. It is not as if I don't use proprietory software, I think there are some trade-offs to be made I decided to use obsidian partially because I found it to have a better plugin system than logseq (? sorry if this isn't the correct name) and I really like the excalidraw plugin in obsidian.

kldg 1y ago

this is the line of thinking which led me to furnish daughter with Windows laptops and, later, desktops; I remove the adware & spyware to some degree, but Windows (and I assume Mac, but I'm not in that space) has the benefit of generally being reasonably intuitive for basic use WITHOUT A CHEAT SHEET and, importantly, fast and easy to teach intermediate use of. if she wants to know how to enable literal (that is, correct) filename sorting in File Explorer or write an HID driver, I'll be here. + I sure don't feel like debugging every strange artifact appearing in Steam games as a result of emulation. one thing I have protested, to the point of being obnoxious, is school-managed Chromebooks. I've talked to every principal of every school she's been in since Covid-19 to persistently request I be allowed to furnish a Windows laptop or at least a Chromebook I manage. -and in a bit of a surprise to me, everyone's been accommodating (though never to let her use a Windows laptop; I think maybe providing it as an option makes breaking policy to let her bring a self-managed Chromebook seem reasonable). I argue I operate web services with user information at home and don't want school employees on my network, and I don't want the financial liability of her accidentally damaging school property.

korse 1y ago

I think you're taking this too far. First off, limiting screen time and access to feeds while making sure kids are socialized is generally a good thing regardless of where they decide to go in life. Computers that make things a bit 'harder' help stave off mindless consumption of content without being oppressive. Arguably you could just put your kids in a high-end private school with other well socialized children who have had significant sums of money invested in their development and haven't even been pacified with tech out of parental laziness/necessity but hey, whatever works... Secondly, providing a linux based computer or old windows as an intro to technology has one very basic benefit. It teaches mindful interaction with technology. These things are tools. Regardless of how hard many companies try, computers (smartphone, tablet or desktop) remain machines that do exactly what we ask them when you ask them to do it and internalizing this at a young age builds stronger humans.