6 ms·

Visa and Mastercard near deal with merchants that would change rewards landscape

36 points by josephcsible 1y ago

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/visa-and-mastercard-near-deal-with-merchants-that-would-change-rewards-landscape/ar-AA1Q4sHU https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/visa-and-mastercar...

k310 1y ago
Syndicated at MSN. Archive sites returned a gripe about js and adblockers. https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/visa-and-mastercard-near-deal-with-merchants-that-would-change-rewards-landscape/ar-AA1Q4sHU https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/visa-and-mastercar...
netsharc 1y ago
Man, looking forward to the paying experience also being enshittified. Actually with my card in Europe it's already happened: any payment purpotedly being done overseas (even if it's in the local currency) has some % surcharge. One time some pop-up store came to my town, and they brought a card machine from their store in France. Charged in my local currency, and my bank charged me more. Luckily I could call them with much annoyance and get it credited back. From online chatter I've heard that paying for Netflix or some other foreign service induces this charge too.
- Etheryte 1y ago
  Sounds like a good time to check out Wise or other similar options. There's no reason to pay extra for something as essential as card payments.
  - netsharc 1y ago
    I'm not saying I don't have a solution already at hand.
- nicolinox 1y ago
  Use Revolut for no exchange rate fees added while paying in foreign currencies; also with disposable virtual debit card numbers for extra security when payment gateways or websites do get compromised.
  - ReluctantLaser 1y ago
    *Revolut is not a registered bank in many regions. Other financial institutions (i.e. actual banks) also provide no addition exchange rate fees in foreign currencies, and some have the full feature set described.
  - netsharc 1y ago
    You forgot your referral link at the end of that message. /s Yeah I know Revolut... I've also seen stories of them basically freezing people's accounts. I have it but I only top it up when I need it.
kalleboo 1y ago
> Under terms being discussed, Visa and Mastercard would lower credit-card interchange fees, which are often between 2% and 2.5%, by an average of around a tenth of a percentage point over several years, the people said Meanwhile interchange fees in places like EU and Australia are more like 0.3% The Visa/Mastercard duopoly really needs to be broken up somehow. I live in Asia where there is a cambrian explosion of QR-code based payment methods. At many shops you'll see a list of accepted payment methods like this[0], indicating a healthy amount of competition in payments. [0] https://corporate.fithouse.co.jp/wp/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/K決済表示NEWS用202202_800×1550.png https://corporate.fithouse.co.jp/wp/wp-content/uploads/2021/...
- phantomathkg 1y ago
  QR Code base system is slow, have security risk and will not work without smartphone. Proliferation of hundred of QR Code based payments system is not a good thing, you need one that works across all countries. Outside Visa and Mastercard, we have Amex, Diner, JCB, even China has UnionPay, but unfortunately they are not as popular as a contender of the duopoly.
  - kalleboo 1y ago
    QR is not ideal but as long as Apple keeps such a tight leash on NFC payments, it's the only "open" option. It's ironic that by trying to keep NFC payments so secure, they've instead caused the wide proliferation of far less secure alternatives. Physical card issuance is too high-friction for new entrants. It's much easier to attract new users with "just install our app" than "enter your home address and wait days for a card to arrive then put it in your wallet and remember to use it"
  - teyc 1y ago
    what's the security risk with QR systems? I've recently come to use one and it relies on software for both parties having connectivity.
    - justsomehnguy 1y ago
jamesholden 1y ago
"Deal under discussion would lower credit-card interchange fees for merchants, but could make it harder for consumers to use rewards cards at the register" Surprise! The consumer loses again! It's always somehow benefiting everyone but the consumer. Too much control, not enough regulation. People shouldn't be bilked out of funds by paying to use their own money. We are shouldn't be _forced_ to use these service companies for making payments.
- jjcob 1y ago
  Credit card rewards are not good for consumers. Low fees are good for consumers.
  - halJordan 1y ago
    Is there a meaningful difference between what the us has and what the eu has? Is everything 3% cheaper in the eu? What's the actual benefit consumers see
    - jjcob 1y ago
      > Is everything 3% cheaper in the eu? No, because in Europe sales tax is higher and included in the displayed price, so stuff is generally more expensive. But obviously everything is 3% cheaper than it would be if businesses still had to pay 3% fees. (credit card fees used to be really high before EU regulation came in -- the minimum fee was so high that merchants sometimes paid more in fees than they made in profit when a customer swiped a credit card instead of a debit card). But the much bigger advantage is that reward cards aren't a thing, and credit card usage is much less common. Most people just use their debit cards. Credit card debt is much less of a problem because credit cards aren't advertised like they are in the US. People spend less if they don't always have $3000 of credit available.
kotaKat 1y ago
Good. Reward cards just open a disparate rift between classes.
- quickthrowman 1y ago
  Middle class people saving 1.5% on retail purchases is not going to ignite a class war. I get like $40-50 a month back, $600 a year isn’t going to change the life of someone that makes a third of what I do. We’d all be better off without credit card rewards and paying 2-3% less for everything but it is what it is.
  - kotaKat 1y ago
    Must be nice, I’m in the class that gets $0 back a month. $600 would definitely help. But hey, I forgot HN is overindexed on overinflated big tech salaries while field tech workers get shafted on the low side.
    - josephcsible 1y ago
      You don't need a tech salary to get a rewards card. What's stopping you from getting, e.g., a Wells Fargo Active Cash, Citi Double Cash, or SoFi Unlimited card? They all give 2% cash back on everything. And if you have no or bad credit, there are even debit cards that will give you cash back, e.g., PayPal Debit will give you 5% back on a category of your choice (one of restaurants, apparel, fuel, groceries, or rideshare/transit).
    - quickthrowman 1y ago
      10 years ago I signed up for a 1.5% cashback card with Capital One, I had a 550 credit score and was making $15/hr. I also make less than $100k a year today.
zihotki 1y ago
I can't wait till Wero* will be fully rolled out in EU. ECB does a good job of managing financial landscape for payments in the consumer friendly way * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wero_(payment) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wero_(payment)
- Havoc 1y ago
  Interesting. Wonder if it’ll be available for uk residents. Could be useful for mainland service like hetzner etc
bob1029 1y ago
I would challenge any retail business to beat the 2.5% rate on their cash transactions once the various transit, security and banking fees have been factored in. Those armored trucks don't work for free. The US payment networks are also incredibly robust with some fantastical operational guarantees. I cannot recall the last time I couldn't get an online authorization at a merchant terminal. There are rooms of people monitoring these things like a hawk 24/7/365. Imagine being called by your ISP proactively when they detect >.01% packet loss on your line. That was my job for an entire year. Calling banks on the phone in the middle of the night because we think there might be an issue before there actually is an issue. Statistically speaking, this is one of the most certain things in the life of a typical American. Visa alone processes a quarter trillion (10^12) transactions per year. We've got a lot of samples that say the system works really well and might be worth the cost. You can point to regulation and artificial moats for prohibiting competition, but it's genuinely a difficult problem to solve, even if you can do it purely digital. Trust is the most challenging element. I think moving cash, checks and other paper around is easier in a lot of ways.
- tristanj 1y ago
  Visa's merchant fee for in-person transactions is only 0.3% in Europe, with the exact same robustness and operational guarantees you describe.
  - blasphemers 1y ago
    Visa's fee in the US is also only 0.3%. Most of the interchange fee goes to the issuing bank and is used for cardholder rewards/benefits.
- kobalsky 1y ago
  Well, it used to be justified but if they are lowering their rates it's in part because they are starting to get replaced by regional wallets. Personally I think it's fantastic they are losing ground because it really rubs me the wrong way when they force their morals [1] [2]. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/19/22632797/onlyfans-prohibit-sexually-explicit-content-porn-creators https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/19/22632797/onlyfans-prohibi... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/29/mastercard-visa-backlash-adult-games-removed-online-stores-steam-itchio-ntwnfb https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/29/mastercard-vis...
kylehotchkiss 1y ago
I can see grocery stores and gas stations declining rewards cards. No big deal. E-commerce or coffee spot denying them? I’ll shop around for another!

36 points by josephcsible 1y ago

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/visa-and-mastercard-near-deal-with-merchants-that-would-change-rewards-landscape/ar-AA1Q4sHU https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/visa-and-mastercar...

k310 1y ago

Syndicated at MSN. Archive sites returned a gripe about js and adblockers. https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/visa-and-mastercard-near-deal-with-merchants-that-would-change-rewards-landscape/ar-AA1Q4sHU https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/visa-and-mastercar...

netsharc 1y ago

Man, looking forward to the paying experience also being enshittified. Actually with my card in Europe it's already happened: any payment purpotedly being done overseas (even if it's in the local currency) has some % surcharge. One time some pop-up store came to my town, and they brought a card machine from their store in France. Charged in my local currency, and my bank charged me more. Luckily I could call them with much annoyance and get it credited back. From online chatter I've heard that paying for Netflix or some other foreign service induces this charge too.

Etheryte 1y ago
Sounds like a good time to check out Wise or other similar options. There's no reason to pay extra for something as essential as card payments.
- netsharc 1y ago
  I'm not saying I don't have a solution already at hand.
nicolinox 1y ago
Use Revolut for no exchange rate fees added while paying in foreign currencies; also with disposable virtual debit card numbers for extra security when payment gateways or websites do get compromised.
- ReluctantLaser 1y ago
  *Revolut is not a registered bank in many regions. Other financial institutions (i.e. actual banks) also provide no addition exchange rate fees in foreign currencies, and some have the full feature set described.
- netsharc 1y ago
  You forgot your referral link at the end of that message. /s Yeah I know Revolut... I've also seen stories of them basically freezing people's accounts. I have it but I only top it up when I need it.

kalleboo 1y ago

> Under terms being discussed, Visa and Mastercard would lower credit-card interchange fees, which are often between 2% and 2.5%, by an average of around a tenth of a percentage point over several years, the people said Meanwhile interchange fees in places like EU and Australia are more like 0.3% The Visa/Mastercard duopoly really needs to be broken up somehow. I live in Asia where there is a cambrian explosion of QR-code based payment methods. At many shops you'll see a list of accepted payment methods like this[0], indicating a healthy amount of competition in payments. [0] https://corporate.fithouse.co.jp/wp/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/K決済表示NEWS用202202_800×1550.png https://corporate.fithouse.co.jp/wp/wp-content/uploads/2021/...

phantomathkg 1y ago
QR Code base system is slow, have security risk and will not work without smartphone. Proliferation of hundred of QR Code based payments system is not a good thing, you need one that works across all countries. Outside Visa and Mastercard, we have Amex, Diner, JCB, even China has UnionPay, but unfortunately they are not as popular as a contender of the duopoly.
- kalleboo 1y ago
  QR is not ideal but as long as Apple keeps such a tight leash on NFC payments, it's the only "open" option. It's ironic that by trying to keep NFC payments so secure, they've instead caused the wide proliferation of far less secure alternatives. Physical card issuance is too high-friction for new entrants. It's much easier to attract new users with "just install our app" than "enter your home address and wait days for a card to arrive then put it in your wallet and remember to use it"
- teyc 1y ago
  what's the security risk with QR systems? I've recently come to use one and it relies on software for both parties having connectivity.
  - justsomehnguy 1y ago

jamesholden 1y ago

"Deal under discussion would lower credit-card interchange fees for merchants, but could make it harder for consumers to use rewards cards at the register" Surprise! The consumer loses again! It's always somehow benefiting everyone but the consumer. Too much control, not enough regulation. People shouldn't be bilked out of funds by paying to use their own money. We are shouldn't be _forced_ to use these service companies for making payments.

jjcob 1y ago
Credit card rewards are not good for consumers. Low fees are good for consumers.
- halJordan 1y ago
  Is there a meaningful difference between what the us has and what the eu has? Is everything 3% cheaper in the eu? What's the actual benefit consumers see
  - jjcob 1y ago
    > Is everything 3% cheaper in the eu? No, because in Europe sales tax is higher and included in the displayed price, so stuff is generally more expensive. But obviously everything is 3% cheaper than it would be if businesses still had to pay 3% fees. (credit card fees used to be really high before EU regulation came in -- the minimum fee was so high that merchants sometimes paid more in fees than they made in profit when a customer swiped a credit card instead of a debit card). But the much bigger advantage is that reward cards aren't a thing, and credit card usage is much less common. Most people just use their debit cards. Credit card debt is much less of a problem because credit cards aren't advertised like they are in the US. People spend less if they don't always have $3000 of credit available.

kotaKat 1y ago

Good. Reward cards just open a disparate rift between classes.

quickthrowman 1y ago
Middle class people saving 1.5% on retail purchases is not going to ignite a class war. I get like $40-50 a month back, $600 a year isn’t going to change the life of someone that makes a third of what I do. We’d all be better off without credit card rewards and paying 2-3% less for everything but it is what it is.
- kotaKat 1y ago
  Must be nice, I’m in the class that gets $0 back a month. $600 would definitely help. But hey, I forgot HN is overindexed on overinflated big tech salaries while field tech workers get shafted on the low side.
  - josephcsible 1y ago
    You don't need a tech salary to get a rewards card. What's stopping you from getting, e.g., a Wells Fargo Active Cash, Citi Double Cash, or SoFi Unlimited card? They all give 2% cash back on everything. And if you have no or bad credit, there are even debit cards that will give you cash back, e.g., PayPal Debit will give you 5% back on a category of your choice (one of restaurants, apparel, fuel, groceries, or rideshare/transit).
  - quickthrowman 1y ago
    10 years ago I signed up for a 1.5% cashback card with Capital One, I had a 550 credit score and was making $15/hr. I also make less than $100k a year today.

zihotki 1y ago

I can't wait till Wero* will be fully rolled out in EU. ECB does a good job of managing financial landscape for payments in the consumer friendly way * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wero_(payment) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wero_(payment)

Havoc 1y ago
Interesting. Wonder if it’ll be available for uk residents. Could be useful for mainland service like hetzner etc

bob1029 1y ago

I would challenge any retail business to beat the 2.5% rate on their cash transactions once the various transit, security and banking fees have been factored in. Those armored trucks don't work for free. The US payment networks are also incredibly robust with some fantastical operational guarantees. I cannot recall the last time I couldn't get an online authorization at a merchant terminal. There are rooms of people monitoring these things like a hawk 24/7/365. Imagine being called by your ISP proactively when they detect >.01% packet loss on your line. That was my job for an entire year. Calling banks on the phone in the middle of the night because we think there might be an issue before there actually is an issue. Statistically speaking, this is one of the most certain things in the life of a typical American. Visa alone processes a quarter trillion (10^12) transactions per year. We've got a lot of samples that say the system works really well and might be worth the cost. You can point to regulation and artificial moats for prohibiting competition, but it's genuinely a difficult problem to solve, even if you can do it purely digital. Trust is the most challenging element. I think moving cash, checks and other paper around is easier in a lot of ways.

tristanj 1y ago
Visa's merchant fee for in-person transactions is only 0.3% in Europe, with the exact same robustness and operational guarantees you describe.
- blasphemers 1y ago
  Visa's fee in the US is also only 0.3%. Most of the interchange fee goes to the issuing bank and is used for cardholder rewards/benefits.
kobalsky 1y ago
Well, it used to be justified but if they are lowering their rates it's in part because they are starting to get replaced by regional wallets. Personally I think it's fantastic they are losing ground because it really rubs me the wrong way when they force their morals [1] [2]. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/19/22632797/onlyfans-prohibit-sexually-explicit-content-porn-creators https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/19/22632797/onlyfans-prohibi... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/29/mastercard-visa-backlash-adult-games-removed-online-stores-steam-itchio-ntwnfb https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/29/mastercard-vis...

kylehotchkiss 1y ago

I can see grocery stores and gas stations declining rewards cards. No big deal. E-commerce or coffee spot denying them? I’ll shop around for another!