2 ms·

> Let's start with a bang. Passports and strictly enforced borders are dumb This. It's weird how it's not considered a basic human right to be able travel to

> Let's start with a bang. Passports and strictly enforced borders are dumb This. It's weird how it's not considered a basic human right to be able travel to where you want, and even live where you want as long as you can support yourself and comply with the local laws and customs. And that's how it was for like 99% of the time that humans have existed. When did keeping people locked inside "borders" even become a thing? I'm guessing post World War 1? Looking up history on Wikipedia says documents for "citizenship" existed maybe as far back as Ancient Egypt but there doesn't seem to be anything that forced people to remain within the nation of their birth. The West literally bombed Japan and China to open their borders for "tRaDe" then pushed for strict borders after the world's worst wars that they started.

bad_username 1y ago
> It's weird how it's not considered a basic human right to be able travel to where you want, and even live where you want as long as you can support yourself and comply with the local laws and customs The "as long as you can" is exactly the reason. There is no way to ensure the travelers or migrants can (and want) to do that, if you don't have a border.
- jmward01 1y ago
  Really? If I go to another country and commit a crime they can't enforce their laws on me unless they stop me at the border? I don't see how stopping me at the border stops me from committing a crime when I get past it or stops the country from enforcing their laws when I am caught. What did the border magically do to change enforcement?
port11 1y ago
> The West literally bombed Japan and China to open their borders for "tRaDe" then pushed for strict borders after the world's worst wars that they started. Eh, that literally is doing a lot of work. Where's evidence to this claim? And at what point did we bomb… checks notes, China? Also keep in mind that “for like 99% of the time” people didn't move that much. People were very linked to their source of food, community, and what brought them stability. There isn't a lot of examples of 17-century travel influencers going around the world looking for The Best Places For Foodies. Countries have tough challenges to contend with. Borders are arbitrary, yes, but we can't hand-wave them away now. What we can do is work together at the supra-national level.

bad_username 1y ago

> It's weird how it's not considered a basic human right to be able travel to where you want, and even live where you want as long as you can support yourself and comply with the local laws and customs The "as long as you can" is exactly the reason. There is no way to ensure the travelers or migrants can (and want) to do that, if you don't have a border.

jmward01 1y ago
Really? If I go to another country and commit a crime they can't enforce their laws on me unless they stop me at the border? I don't see how stopping me at the border stops me from committing a crime when I get past it or stops the country from enforcing their laws when I am caught. What did the border magically do to change enforcement?

port11 1y ago

> The West literally bombed Japan and China to open their borders for "tRaDe" then pushed for strict borders after the world's worst wars that they started. Eh, that literally is doing a lot of work. Where's evidence to this claim? And at what point did we bomb… checks notes, China? Also keep in mind that “for like 99% of the time” people didn't move that much. People were very linked to their source of food, community, and what brought them stability. There isn't a lot of examples of 17-century travel influencers going around the world looking for The Best Places For Foodies. Countries have tough challenges to contend with. Borders are arbitrary, yes, but we can't hand-wave them away now. What we can do is work together at the supra-national level.