5 ms·

ProPublica is extremely left-wing. That doesn't imply that their journalism is low-quality or inaccurate, but it does suggest that their choice of stories will

ProPublica is extremely left-wing. That doesn't imply that their journalism is low-quality or inaccurate, but it does suggest that their choice of stories will be colored by that ideological/establishment-friendly bent. You won't see them investigating the political influence exerted by public sector unions for example. Their X feed gives a pretty clear picture of that: https://x.com/propublica https://x.com/propublica

JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
> That doesn't imply that their journalism is low-quality or inaccurate Anecdote: in some early reporting, I noticed a citation to a paper that didn’t support the purported argument. (It said the opposite.) I emailed the author, one of the founding journalists at Pro Publica and an award winner. He basically thanked me for the feedback and then left the article unchanged. Pro Publica is reputable for a small publication. But they are not authoritative.
- httpsoverdns 11mo ago
  What exactly was thing the subject matter? Was it something he could have reasonably disagreed with?
  - JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
    > Was it something he could have reasonably disagreed with? No. He cited a paper showing the opposite effect from what he claimed it to be.
    - deleted 11mo ago
      [deleted]
- throwworhtthrow 11mo ago
  Be specific. Which article and which citation? Otherwise this is insinuation or even slander. Edit to add: what you've done here is defame every member of the ProPublica staff, past and present (because you don't name a particular writer or article). There is no way for anyone from ProPublica to refute this. If you want to critique ProPublica honestly, quote a particular statement they've published.
  - ETH_start 11mo ago
    I'm just speculating here, but it could be that he doesn't want to risk doxing himself. If he emailed them from his personal email address, which contains his real name, the journalist could out him.
    - throwworhtthrow 11mo ago
      It would be extremely counterproductive for a ProPublica writer to maliciously dox someone who pointed out a logical inconsistency in their writing, if the writer's intent is to bolster their own trustworthiness. Any journalist crazy enough to do this would be forever out of a job because no source would ever speak to them again.
      - ETH_start 11mo ago
        There's a lot of paranoia out there so this is good to know.
  - JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
    > Be specific. Which article and which citation? Otherwise this is insinuation or even slander I’m literally calling out a liar. Not sure how you missed that. But sure. This is the article [1]. Excerpt from my e-mail to the author: “I came across your post through Dealbook today. In your article you mention that it is ‘argued that [Sarbanes-Oxley] would hurt initial public offerings, which it didn’t.’ You link through to a working paper on the SSRN at ‘didn't’. From the paper linked to: ‘Although the 2002 Sarbanes-Oxley Act and the 2003 Global Settlement have reduced the attractiveness of being public for small companies, we argue that the more fundamental problem is the increased inability of small companies to become and remain profitable.’ The paper, in whole, posits that structural changes in the attractiveness of exit by acquisition versus IPO are the salient factor behind a secular decrease in IPO activity…Furthermore, the paper directly concedes (see quote above) that SOX negatively impacted IPO activity. This is not how you represented it in your article.” Eisinger’s response: “Thanks, [JumpCrisscross], for your thoughts.” > what you've done here is defame every member of the ProPublica staff, past and present (because you don't name a particular writer or article) I’m calling Jesse Eisinger unreliable. Since he’s a founder in good standing at Pro Publica, I’m calling out the publication. Honest journalists don’t get free passes for negligent or crooked bosses. Pro Publica is worth reading. It is not authoritative—it does not hold itself up to journalistic standards, a rot which starts at the top. (I’ve used the above exchange to block Pro Publica from influencing lawmaking on Cheyenne, Albany, Sacramento and D.C. I would want anything they say independently corroborated before being acted on.) [1] https://www.propublica.org/article/the-sox-win-how-financial-regulation-can-work https://www.propublica.org/article/the-sox-win-how-financial...
CursedSilicon 11mo ago
"Don't dump toxic waste into fucking manholes" is "left-wing" now? You're gonna have a real head spin moment when you find out who founded the EPA!
- bawolff 11mo ago
  Its more basic then that. This is follow laws as they are written. It should not be a left/right issue. If you dont like a law, that's why its a democracy.
- ETH_start 11mo ago
  Of course not. But there are a myriad of wrong-doings from all sectors of the economy. Choosing to focus exclusively on the wrongdoings of interests that are obstacles to the coalition of unions, bureaucracies, and allied media that economically benefit from ever-increasing public spending (from 20% of GDP in 1950 to 38% today) is a case of shaping public opinion by selection.
  - port11 11mo ago
    Pure whataboutism, come on. Yes, other things deserve investigation, but so does this. And there's plenty of right-wing media — in fact I'd argue too much such that there's a lack of balance in US media.
    - ETH_start 11mo ago
      >Yes, other things deserve investigation, but so does this. I was not trying to imply that this does not deserve investigation. I just thought that it was relevant to point out the agenda or ideological bias of the source because it helps to know these kinds of things. >And there's plenty of right-wing media — in fact I'd argue too much such that there's a lack of balance in US media. Journalists are overwhelmingly left-wing in their ideological leanings. The result is something you could call "silence by selection": investigative reporting on corporate or conservative money is constant, but similar investigations of public-sector unions’ financial pipelines, pensions, and political leverage are almost non existent. When mainstream coverage discusses "special interests", it targets corporations or billionaires, not the public-sector class which is the single most powerful political bloc in every advanced Western democracy (and which is the reason why every major urban area in the US is controlled by Democrats).
hvb2 11mo ago
Why does left or right even matter? This is ordinary stuff that should be covered? If you've read the article, you can see how - they were told to stop, and refused - lied about what they did to make the problem look smaller - reversed corrective action as soon as they thought the inspectors left This has nothing to do with bias. A right wing outlet should've covered this too. They might have used some different words but I don't see how this can be anything other than intentional. In the end their own legal department had to step in and acknowledge that they won't do any other projects before putting in remediations.
- ETH_start 11mo ago
  The systematic bias arises from story selection, not from whether a specific investigation is accurate. So I am absolutely not suggesting this story is not accurate or that Boring Company isn't at fault. In the long run selective coverage creates an inaccurate picture of reality: constant stories about private greed, almost none about institutional self-dealing within the state.
  - bawolff 11mo ago
    Given that the current president is right wing, wouldn't the left have a vested interest in talking about self-dealing in the state? Regardless, we are on a news aggregator here. Whatever selection bias this source has should be counteracted by hn drawing from many sources. At least on the source level. HN is going to of course be biased towards stories hn finds interesting.
    - ETH_start 11mo ago
      >Given that the current president is right wing, wouldn't the left have a vested interest in talking about self-dealing in the state? If there wasn't a permanent bureaucracy of sorts, then yes, but in this case there is in fact a permanent bureaucracy, what some call the deep state, which is a constant regardless of which party is in power. And this political bloc overwhelmingly supports the Democrats and is threatened by potential cuts from Republicans. Covering self-dealing within the state would give the Republicans' efforts to cut some of these programs and departments moral legitimacy in the public eye, so left-wing news sources would not do that.

JumpCrisscross 11mo ago

> That doesn't imply that their journalism is low-quality or inaccurate Anecdote: in some early reporting, I noticed a citation to a paper that didn’t support the purported argument. (It said the opposite.) I emailed the author, one of the founding journalists at Pro Publica and an award winner. He basically thanked me for the feedback and then left the article unchanged. Pro Publica is reputable for a small publication. But they are not authoritative.

httpsoverdns 11mo ago
What exactly was thing the subject matter? Was it something he could have reasonably disagreed with?
- JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
  > Was it something he could have reasonably disagreed with? No. He cited a paper showing the opposite effect from what he claimed it to be.
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
throwworhtthrow 11mo ago
Be specific. Which article and which citation? Otherwise this is insinuation or even slander. Edit to add: what you've done here is defame every member of the ProPublica staff, past and present (because you don't name a particular writer or article). There is no way for anyone from ProPublica to refute this. If you want to critique ProPublica honestly, quote a particular statement they've published.
- ETH_start 11mo ago
  I'm just speculating here, but it could be that he doesn't want to risk doxing himself. If he emailed them from his personal email address, which contains his real name, the journalist could out him.
  - throwworhtthrow 11mo ago
    It would be extremely counterproductive for a ProPublica writer to maliciously dox someone who pointed out a logical inconsistency in their writing, if the writer's intent is to bolster their own trustworthiness. Any journalist crazy enough to do this would be forever out of a job because no source would ever speak to them again.
    - ETH_start 11mo ago
      There's a lot of paranoia out there so this is good to know.
- JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
  > Be specific. Which article and which citation? Otherwise this is insinuation or even slander I’m literally calling out a liar. Not sure how you missed that. But sure. This is the article [1]. Excerpt from my e-mail to the author: “I came across your post through Dealbook today. In your article you mention that it is ‘argued that [Sarbanes-Oxley] would hurt initial public offerings, which it didn’t.’ You link through to a working paper on the SSRN at ‘didn't’. From the paper linked to: ‘Although the 2002 Sarbanes-Oxley Act and the 2003 Global Settlement have reduced the attractiveness of being public for small companies, we argue that the more fundamental problem is the increased inability of small companies to become and remain profitable.’ The paper, in whole, posits that structural changes in the attractiveness of exit by acquisition versus IPO are the salient factor behind a secular decrease in IPO activity…Furthermore, the paper directly concedes (see quote above) that SOX negatively impacted IPO activity. This is not how you represented it in your article.” Eisinger’s response: “Thanks, [JumpCrisscross], for your thoughts.” > what you've done here is defame every member of the ProPublica staff, past and present (because you don't name a particular writer or article) I’m calling Jesse Eisinger unreliable. Since he’s a founder in good standing at Pro Publica, I’m calling out the publication. Honest journalists don’t get free passes for negligent or crooked bosses. Pro Publica is worth reading. It is not authoritative—it does not hold itself up to journalistic standards, a rot which starts at the top. (I’ve used the above exchange to block Pro Publica from influencing lawmaking on Cheyenne, Albany, Sacramento and D.C. I would want anything they say independently corroborated before being acted on.) [1] https://www.propublica.org/article/the-sox-win-how-financial-regulation-can-work https://www.propublica.org/article/the-sox-win-how-financial...

CursedSilicon 11mo ago

"Don't dump toxic waste into fucking manholes" is "left-wing" now? You're gonna have a real head spin moment when you find out who founded the EPA!

bawolff 11mo ago
Its more basic then that. This is follow laws as they are written. It should not be a left/right issue. If you dont like a law, that's why its a democracy.
ETH_start 11mo ago
Of course not. But there are a myriad of wrong-doings from all sectors of the economy. Choosing to focus exclusively on the wrongdoings of interests that are obstacles to the coalition of unions, bureaucracies, and allied media that economically benefit from ever-increasing public spending (from 20% of GDP in 1950 to 38% today) is a case of shaping public opinion by selection.
- port11 11mo ago
  Pure whataboutism, come on. Yes, other things deserve investigation, but so does this. And there's plenty of right-wing media — in fact I'd argue too much such that there's a lack of balance in US media.
  - ETH_start 11mo ago
    >Yes, other things deserve investigation, but so does this. I was not trying to imply that this does not deserve investigation. I just thought that it was relevant to point out the agenda or ideological bias of the source because it helps to know these kinds of things. >And there's plenty of right-wing media — in fact I'd argue too much such that there's a lack of balance in US media. Journalists are overwhelmingly left-wing in their ideological leanings. The result is something you could call "silence by selection": investigative reporting on corporate or conservative money is constant, but similar investigations of public-sector unions’ financial pipelines, pensions, and political leverage are almost non existent. When mainstream coverage discusses "special interests", it targets corporations or billionaires, not the public-sector class which is the single most powerful political bloc in every advanced Western democracy (and which is the reason why every major urban area in the US is controlled by Democrats).

hvb2 11mo ago

Why does left or right even matter? This is ordinary stuff that should be covered? If you've read the article, you can see how - they were told to stop, and refused - lied about what they did to make the problem look smaller - reversed corrective action as soon as they thought the inspectors left This has nothing to do with bias. A right wing outlet should've covered this too. They might have used some different words but I don't see how this can be anything other than intentional. In the end their own legal department had to step in and acknowledge that they won't do any other projects before putting in remediations.

ETH_start 11mo ago
The systematic bias arises from story selection, not from whether a specific investigation is accurate. So I am absolutely not suggesting this story is not accurate or that Boring Company isn't at fault. In the long run selective coverage creates an inaccurate picture of reality: constant stories about private greed, almost none about institutional self-dealing within the state.
- bawolff 11mo ago
  Given that the current president is right wing, wouldn't the left have a vested interest in talking about self-dealing in the state? Regardless, we are on a news aggregator here. Whatever selection bias this source has should be counteracted by hn drawing from many sources. At least on the source level. HN is going to of course be biased towards stories hn finds interesting.
  - ETH_start 11mo ago
    >Given that the current president is right wing, wouldn't the left have a vested interest in talking about self-dealing in the state? If there wasn't a permanent bureaucracy of sorts, then yes, but in this case there is in fact a permanent bureaucracy, what some call the deep state, which is a constant regardless of which party is in power. And this political bloc overwhelmingly supports the Democrats and is threatened by potential cuts from Republicans. Covering self-dealing within the state would give the Republicans' efforts to cut some of these programs and departments moral legitimacy in the public eye, so left-wing news sources would not do that.