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When states choose nullification as a policy to ignore federal law, it’s an overt act of escalation. I don’t think these raids are good policy, but I won’t pre

by scoofy 1y ago

When states choose nullification as a policy to ignore federal law, it’s an overt act of escalation. I don’t think these raids are good policy, but I won’t pretend that it’s happening in isolation. What they are doing, in large part, seems to be legal. Dressing detention up as kidnapping isn’t treating the issue in good faith.

Freedumbs 1y ago
wtf are you talking about? they've shot us citizens, they continually beat an kidnap us citizens for no reason. care to explain any of the actions in this blog post? are you aware of the attack they carried out on an apartment building where they took everyone, mostly US citizens into custody in the middle of the night? kidnapping is the best way to describe it. it's 100% accurate. there's no way to distinguish these terrorists as they drive unmarked cars and refuse to identify themselves. anyone could dress up like them and kidnap people.
- scoofy 1y ago
  Because detained and arrested is not the same as kidnapping. It’s just not even close.
  - UmGuys 1y ago
    KIDNAP: To abduct or confine (a person) forcibly, by threat of force, or by deceit, without the authority of law. Care to explain the distinction? They have authority of law?? haha It's terrorism. No crime, no warrant, no due process. Obviously it's not kidnapping by law, because no law applies to ICE. The apartment building scene was a mass kidnapping of US citizens. They've shot US citizens for recording their actions with live bullets, pepper balls, and gas grenade launchers. They tear gassed kids on the playground, attacked a Halloween parade, the horrors are endless.
    - inemesitaffia 1y ago
      >without the authority of law
  - tasuki 1y ago
    How do you know whether you're getting detained or kidnapped? The video I saw... it was just some guys with a gun dragging a woman out of her car after crashing into her on purpose. They looked like bandits to me.
    - scoofy 1y ago
      I mean I agree. I think it’s very bad policy to use masking and not immediately identifiable uniforms. Still, this is a hard problem for all law enforcement. It’s trivial for anyone to impersonate police.. especially undercover officers.
  - SAI_Peregrinus 1y ago
    The ICE "agents" often refuse to show any form of identification. There's no way to distinguish it from a kidnapping.
    - scoofy 1y ago
      I mean I agree. I think it’s very bad policy to use masking and not immediately identifiable uniforms. Still, this is a hard problem for all law enforcement. It’s trivial for anyone to impersonate police.. especially undercover officers.
jamtur01 1y ago
You are familiar with the 4th Amendment? These acts are a clear violation of 4th Amendment rights, rights which extend to both citizens and non-citizens.
- scoofy 1y ago
  >When do ICE agents need a warrant to arrest immigrants? >A judicial warrant is a legal order authorizing law enforcement’s search, seizure or arrest on private property. Judicial warrants are signed by a judge. >Immigration agents also use administrative warrants, which carry lower legal weight. Administrative warrants are signed by federal agents such as immigration judges or officers. These warrants allow ICE agents to arrest someone in public places. However, they don’t give officers the right to enter private property. >Although ICE agents are required to have a judicial warrant to enter a person’s home, they are not required to have a judicial warrant to arrest someone in public spaces, such as the immigration court building. >"Lander is incorrect that a judicial warrant is required," Aaron Reichlin-Melnick, a senior fellow at the American Immigration Council, an immigrant-rights advocacy group, said on X. >An administrative warrant isn’t always required to arrest someone in public. According to immigration law, agents can arrest an immigrant without a warrant if they have "reason to believe" the immigrant is in the U.S. without authorization and "is likely to escape before a warrant can be obtained for his arrest." https://api.politifact.com/article/2025/jun/18/Brad-Lander-ICE-required-warrant-arrest-immgirants/ https://api.politifact.com/article/2025/jun/18/Brad-Lander-I... This goes on: >Can ICE agents arrest U.S. citizens? >ICE agents generally can’t arrest U.S. citizens, because they aren’t committing a civil immigration violation. However, an agent may arrest a U.S. citizen on the grounds that they believe the person is in the U.S. illegally. The person would be released after showing proof of citizenship. >However, Lander wasn’t arrested on immigration grounds, said Alexandra Lopez, a Chicago-based immigration attorney. The agent accused Lander of obstruction. >"In this scenario they are acting as federal law enforcement agents who are arresting a U.S. citizen on criminal, not immigration, grounds," Lopez said. "ICE claims they were detaining Comptroller Lander in their capacity as federal law enforcement agents, not immigration enforcement agents." Immigration law is complicated. I'm not some right-wing nutter. I'm just a lefty that thinks we're definitely shooting ourselves in the foot by really misunderstanding what's actually happening. Nullification of immigration laws is, in fact, a right that states can exercise, but it's overt nullification is absolutely an escalation that undermines public trust because it force the feds to send enforcement officers into a hostile area. We should fight to win the immigration debate with persuasion, in the legislature. We need to have the law on our side, and we need to have the populace on our side. Right now, we have neither. We're operating a nullification campaign, and unlike the successes of legalizing marijuana, we're losing this one. If we want to keep doing this, that's fine, but I don't want people out there pretending that lawful detentions are kidnappings. It's dumb, it's a bad look, and it kind of doesn't care about the complexities of the predicament we're in. This is a forum for nerds. I expect people to actually be able to google this shit.

by scoofy 1y ago

Freedumbs 1y ago

wtf are you talking about? they've shot us citizens, they continually beat an kidnap us citizens for no reason. care to explain any of the actions in this blog post? are you aware of the attack they carried out on an apartment building where they took everyone, mostly US citizens into custody in the middle of the night? kidnapping is the best way to describe it. it's 100% accurate. there's no way to distinguish these terrorists as they drive unmarked cars and refuse to identify themselves. anyone could dress up like them and kidnap people.

scoofy 1y ago
Because detained and arrested is not the same as kidnapping. It’s just not even close.
- UmGuys 1y ago
  KIDNAP: To abduct or confine (a person) forcibly, by threat of force, or by deceit, without the authority of law. Care to explain the distinction? They have authority of law?? haha It's terrorism. No crime, no warrant, no due process. Obviously it's not kidnapping by law, because no law applies to ICE. The apartment building scene was a mass kidnapping of US citizens. They've shot US citizens for recording their actions with live bullets, pepper balls, and gas grenade launchers. They tear gassed kids on the playground, attacked a Halloween parade, the horrors are endless.
  - inemesitaffia 1y ago
    >without the authority of law
- tasuki 1y ago
  How do you know whether you're getting detained or kidnapped? The video I saw... it was just some guys with a gun dragging a woman out of her car after crashing into her on purpose. They looked like bandits to me.
  - scoofy 1y ago
    I mean I agree. I think it’s very bad policy to use masking and not immediately identifiable uniforms. Still, this is a hard problem for all law enforcement. It’s trivial for anyone to impersonate police.. especially undercover officers.
- SAI_Peregrinus 1y ago
  The ICE "agents" often refuse to show any form of identification. There's no way to distinguish it from a kidnapping.
  - scoofy 1y ago
    I mean I agree. I think it’s very bad policy to use masking and not immediately identifiable uniforms. Still, this is a hard problem for all law enforcement. It’s trivial for anyone to impersonate police.. especially undercover officers.

jamtur01 1y ago

You are familiar with the 4th Amendment? These acts are a clear violation of 4th Amendment rights, rights which extend to both citizens and non-citizens.

scoofy 1y ago
>When do ICE agents need a warrant to arrest immigrants? >A judicial warrant is a legal order authorizing law enforcement’s search, seizure or arrest on private property. Judicial warrants are signed by a judge. >Immigration agents also use administrative warrants, which carry lower legal weight. Administrative warrants are signed by federal agents such as immigration judges or officers. These warrants allow ICE agents to arrest someone in public places. However, they don’t give officers the right to enter private property. >Although ICE agents are required to have a judicial warrant to enter a person’s home, they are not required to have a judicial warrant to arrest someone in public spaces, such as the immigration court building. >"Lander is incorrect that a judicial warrant is required," Aaron Reichlin-Melnick, a senior fellow at the American Immigration Council, an immigrant-rights advocacy group, said on X. >An administrative warrant isn’t always required to arrest someone in public. According to immigration law, agents can arrest an immigrant without a warrant if they have "reason to believe" the immigrant is in the U.S. without authorization and "is likely to escape before a warrant can be obtained for his arrest." https://api.politifact.com/article/2025/jun/18/Brad-Lander-ICE-required-warrant-arrest-immgirants/ https://api.politifact.com/article/2025/jun/18/Brad-Lander-I... This goes on: >Can ICE agents arrest U.S. citizens? >ICE agents generally can’t arrest U.S. citizens, because they aren’t committing a civil immigration violation. However, an agent may arrest a U.S. citizen on the grounds that they believe the person is in the U.S. illegally. The person would be released after showing proof of citizenship. >However, Lander wasn’t arrested on immigration grounds, said Alexandra Lopez, a Chicago-based immigration attorney. The agent accused Lander of obstruction. >"In this scenario they are acting as federal law enforcement agents who are arresting a U.S. citizen on criminal, not immigration, grounds," Lopez said. "ICE claims they were detaining Comptroller Lander in their capacity as federal law enforcement agents, not immigration enforcement agents." Immigration law is complicated. I'm not some right-wing nutter. I'm just a lefty that thinks we're definitely shooting ourselves in the foot by really misunderstanding what's actually happening. Nullification of immigration laws is, in fact, a right that states can exercise, but it's overt nullification is absolutely an escalation that undermines public trust because it force the feds to send enforcement officers into a hostile area. We should fight to win the immigration debate with persuasion, in the legislature. We need to have the law on our side, and we need to have the populace on our side. Right now, we have neither. We're operating a nullification campaign, and unlike the successes of legalizing marijuana, we're losing this one. If we want to keep doing this, that's fine, but I don't want people out there pretending that lawful detentions are kidnappings. It's dumb, it's a bad look, and it kind of doesn't care about the complexities of the predicament we're in. This is a forum for nerds. I expect people to actually be able to google this shit.